GGG on Balancing Melee
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Mathil's thoughts on what melee needs - https://youtu.be/vJK2Is_JbOA?t=225 Hmmm...
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I almost exclusively only play melee in POE, I had played spectral throw to somewhat degree..
One big major difference I had seen was there are tons of shits that can easily kill, or in worse situation one shot, melee characters in comparison to ranged characters.. I remember proximity shield being pain in the ass when I was playing spectral throw, but that was pretty much it... The thing I want to see the most is removing the possibility of 1 shot mechanic, and by that I mean when a melee player invests relatively quite a lot in defensive stats they should not be dead in 1 hit. My juggernaut has 10k armor, 7 endurance charges, max resistances even with ele weakness, 40% legacy lightning coil with purity of lightning, 9% physical damage taken as lightning damage with Watcher's eye... I still occasionally get 1 shot just makes me wonder how much more do I have to do to survive? Sacrifice more offensive stats to pump more defensive stats? How much slower do I have to clear maps than I already am in comparison to ranged/spell casters? |
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" tl;dr buff melee skills by 50% of their base raw power. Peace, -Boem- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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" 50% banana, don't forget. Peace, -Boem- edit : he is regarded highly because of his game-skill btw. Making all builds end-game viable by means of personal skill is noteworthy and i am sure GGG apreciate that. He makes glass builds and uses them in end-game, which isn't something all players can do. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes Last edited by Boem#2861 on Mar 5, 2019, 9:43:42 PM
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" The point was that he didn't think melee needed some overly complicated solution revolving around melee identity or defensive archetypes or any of the stuff you guys are discussing here. As far as he was concerned, it was merely a question of tweaking some numbers up. Not saying I agree with him, but I thought it interesting to hear that from someone who has taken melee (and much else besides, including plenty of non-meta stuff) to endgame. Though granted he does tend to not like getting into arguments much and hence refrains from taking any complicated or controversial positions ("but then what the hell do I know? I'm just some random streamer" really ought to be one of his catchphrases). I see him more kind of like the opposite of Tarke, rather than ZiggyD. He seems to prefer to let his builds do the talking for him, which is why I found it interesting that he actually had something to say this time. |
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It would be very easy for ggg to simply bump the base damage multiplier of melee skills and bring melee to a point where it was at least semi efficient in terms of dps/currency cost relative to non melee and while it does not solve the intrinsic issue of poe survivability or truly differentiate melee as a playstyle (you're still going to get 1 shot just like everyone else and have less aoe), it still technically brings melee to a level where it's not a total wash to play. Ideally 3.7 would introduce melee skills with incredibly powerful mechanics like what brands/winter orb did for spells and not just be a 300% damage multiple aoe multi screen 200% added dmg effectiveness meta sarcificial goat.
Right now, it looks like a numerical nerf or buff was their primary strategy for 3.6 spell balance rather than heavy reworks and I am curious to see if this league will have better diversity of skills at least for spells. Reworking a skill from the ground up costs so much dev time and not something GGG can easily afford when pushing out new exciting skills is far more profitable. If spells like EK, ice trap and fireball get some play this league then it will be a good sign that a damage buff is really all that is needed to make skills semi competitive. Similarly, if brands/BV actually fall out favor despite the former having unrivaled mechanics/propagation with just a 20% damage nerf then it will be further proof that just tweaking damage value is enough to bring down or uplift skills. IGN: Arlianth Check out my LA build: 1782214 Last edited by Nephalim#2731 on Mar 6, 2019, 2:23:54 AM
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Buffing melee damage doesn't make much sense IMO, too much damage in this game as it is. Melee can do plenty of damage even with minimal DPS node investments, problem is you can't always do damage when you're dodging all the time- this is one reason why ranged "melee" like tect slam is popular. Best thing to do is reduce monster damage in some way and/or all player damage in general to reduce the effectiveness of glass cannons. Glass cannons are so successful because monsters get shredded before they can ever hit the player. Often times these players will also auto cast, use totems/brands, CoC, or simply never need to stop for long- when you don't need to stand still, stand right next to very powerful boss attacks, or sustain flask charges as long, it means you immediately have a huge advantage.
-PoE is a hard beast to balance as balancing one weak build/class may end up buffing an already powerful build/class as well. They could tie more damage reduction simply as part of melee skill gems but I think that would be lazy. I'd actually prefer to buff notable passives like the fortify cluster, the critical damage reduction cluster, as well as having more health nodes/max resist nodes in general. I'd also like to see new more notable nodes that add things like universal damage reduction based on proximity to the enemy. I wish this game had some cooldown skills like Diablo 3 has. I'd kill for things like ignore pain, CC, and transformation skills. We do have vaal skills but many are not flexible or are simply ineffective for most builds. In other words, there's no vaal skill quite like ignore pain (pure damage reduction). Last edited by Madix#3066 on Mar 6, 2019, 3:14:07 AM
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You cant have true melee in a game heavily centered around clear speed and one shots. Maybe it will take another 5 years for people to finally realize this.
If you want to play melee, get Grim Dawn or Sacred or Diablo 2. Diablo 2 specifically means that you are literally immortal but your clear speed suck. PoE will never EVER have a quality melee experience as long as you have a heavily trade dependent game with monsters filling the whole screen. Buffing the damage to hell will only divide builds between boss killers (melee) and mass farmers, Diablo 2 smitter vs Javazon for example. Last edited by Kasapnica#2414 on Mar 6, 2019, 4:28:13 AM
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buffing melee by 50% wouldn't fix anything, You can triple the damage on some melee skills and they will still do less single target than molten strike.
They need to have an actual plan because the reason melee sucks is they refuse/won't/don't care to admit that it has to have a superior element. Melee by its very nature will always take additional damage, that means it requires additional defense compared to ranged builds. GGG need to just accept that and add the power back in somewhere else, if heavy strike did 450% attack damage you could take additional defences without compromising your damage. They have another hole they dug themselves if they do that though called crit scaling shits on everything else, if heavy strike does 450% glass cannon crit builds will be doing 5mil which is the region for DPS where everything else is irrelevant. the summary of that is simple, buff melee? Easy route is give them defenses appropriate for melee that can't be used by ranged, hard route involves rebalancing damage and scaling options so base melee is top where it should be and has additional passives to allocate to fix survivability if desired. Only thing i'll add to all the people saying this is hard is it isn't, 3.7 is gonna give us a bandaid fix and they could have applied a bandaid fix in literally any of the last set of leagues. Its hard to fix it properly but I really doubt they are going to fix it properly. |
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" Oh yes. They can act like comrade Stalin, but the income of this comrade was not dependent on any "supporter packs" or "mtx". The guy had a lifetime and guaranteed supporter pack from all subjects and if someone did not like his MTX it... oh, everyone loved them. So, in GGG's case is like: "Нет денег, нет GGG" :P And if they piss their playerbase enough... денег не будет. And tencent will kick all of them в зад :P |
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