Trading System?

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Phrazz wrote:

If you seriously thing the reason why they haven't implemented an automated system is "laziness", I feel very sorry for you. And just because you can't understand their reasons in the manifesto, doesn't make it bullshit.

They implemented it in Chinese region.
I bet, our Chinese fellows dont complain about it at all...
So why do they have it, and we cant?
Also, read below

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Arrowneous wrote:

Why is there no middle position to code a trade function between the difficult to use current system (hard) and an auction house (easy)?

I think, GGG makes mistake, calling current trade system "hard" in their manifesto. Actually, it's fucking easy. You can trade as many items as you want, as often as you want, and tiny deals aside (1-10c), PMing some1, TPing to his HO and trading isnt an issue. Price fixing and offline time arent an issue for "no-lifer" players too. They learn most prices anyway, and they can log in whenever needed to buy an item.
The core difference between AH and current trading system will be for "average joe" players (who cant log in when needed and learn prices for most valuable items all the time - cause they cant afford spending much time on AH at all). Also it will greatly improve fossil & essence trading. Sure, "cheap items" (1-20c) would probably turn into useless junk, but who cares about them, anyway?

Everything else will remain pretty much the same. Because for current trading is already too easy for that!

And another mistake - that AH must be hard.
There are multiple restritions, that would restrict players from constant trading. For example, limit the number of trades or searches per day. Used up your limit? Well, better luck another day.

Or even better - make "Auction" league, where AH will be added as core league mechanics. All AH functions (search, post, etc) will requires some charge, paid in specific currency, that drops from enemies eventually. Wanna trade more? Go kill some enemies first, to sustain you trading. Or stop selling junk and focus on actually worthy items. Sure, that currency itself shouldnt be tradeable, like Azurite.
And Boom - we have actually "hard" trade system, but also very convenient AH, that doesnt consume shitloads of your time.

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Unquietheart wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

But easier trading would allow more casual players to engage in trading and thus raise their wealth too.

No, it does not. Trading is a zero sum game. If you trade, and you make 10 chaos in trade, then someone else has 10 less chaos. Zero currency enters the economy via trading. All currency enters the economy as a direct result of playing the game, killing enemies, clearing content. Some people do get rich via trading, but they do it at the expense of those who buy and become poorer as a result.

Now, I'm not saying that there couldn't or shouldn't be quality of life changes, but (in my opinion) making trading easier (in general) would have exactly the impact that Chris Wilson thinks it would.

I do see your point about the "zero sum" economics of trading. Taking any item and trading it for x amount of currency orbs is just moving items around between players and not generating new wealth. At some point in time the item that is up for sale had to have been a drop from playing the game. But then that just means that running a bot to do the playing and item hunt farming for us is the ultimate ruin of the PoE economy. Bots ruined D3 but quick and are poised to do so here. Bots running 24/7 for Chaos recipe is what's driving the exalt price to near 200:1. GGG better code something into PoE that can detect the movement patterns of a bot algorithm verses a human player and then auto-ban them or PoE will suffer the same economic fate as D3. Enough said.

But getting back to the current trade whisper method to buy/sell items, having the only method of receiving a WTB whisper so that we can trade is by being logged into the game and sitting there watching for the WTB message to come up and answering it is definitely BAD. This "hard" trading only favors the no-lifers that are logged in pretty much 24/7 so that they can respond to most of the WTB and make the trade. The rest of the players that can only play < 28 hours a week miss out on a ton of possible trades because we don't have that much time (or just don't want to be chained to our gaming rig that much) to do any trading. And let's also look at the "trade is bad" flame posts that arise from buyers super frustrated that their WTB whispers are not being answered because the seller is off-line or AFK. By having to be logged into PoE and waiting (of course most would be playing a build) for a WTB message to pop-up as the only way to engage in a one-on-one trade is a very bad design for the majority of players. Some alternate form of trade communication needs to be developed for the millions of casuals that would love to be trading their unused/unneeded items for currency orbs to trade for items that they do want. This "alternate" form of trade communication is best achieved by some form of instant messaging app. For all the time I'm not able to play PoE I always go about my daily routine (family life, work, etc.) with my cell phone either on me or within hearing range. If GGG developed an app that I could use that would notify my of another player wanting to buy an item I have for sale then I'd get an audible of the WTB, could then access the app, invite the player to my hideout, pull up the item and see the buyout price I have set, conduct the trade, and then go back to whatever I was doing before the WTB message came in. That (IMHO) would be the perfect way that anyone (from super casual to the extreme players) could engage in trading. And the use of instant messaging technology doesn't make trading "easy". The same invite and getting the item from our stash and placing it in the trade window is still required so the trade mechanics are not changed to make it "easy" to trade (and thus allow trade bots to run rampant). A smart phone trade app just frees us from being chained to PoE to get the WTB whispers. GGG should be using technology to make playing PoE more engaging (and thus we will want to play more to get more items worth selling) instead of eschewing it.

Of course this all boils down to actually playing PoE enough hours to accrue items/currency worth trading. That's another no-brainer. But the current mechanics of PoE trading are only for those who are logged in and at (chained) to their gaming rig. That's what I want GGG to change. The rest of trading is perfectly fine with me and I've always stated "we don't need no stinkin' auction house".

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

They implemented it in Chinese region.
I bet, our Chinese fellows dont complain about it at all...
So why do they have it, and we cant?

Have you offered more than one calorie to look it to how the Chinese "AH" works? I can promise you, if they implemented that here, it WOULD raise havoc. Also, if they implemented some sort of system, forcing you to farm a certain currency to "pay" for the trade itself, people would also be unhappy.

"I have this amazing item I want to buy/sell, but I don't have the "trade-currency" to buy/sell it".

Goes out, farms some "trading-currency", comes back - the item is gone/worth half/worth double.

What we have now, is totally freedom - you can buy when you want, you can sell when you want. Yes, it's inconvenient. No, it's not perfect. But if you take the current freedom away from the community, adding all kinds of limitations/requirements, we would have even more "FUCK TRADE" threads.

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Phrazz wrote:

Also, if they implemented some sort of system, forcing you to farm a certain currency to "pay" for the trade itself, people would also be unhappy.

That "People" are unhappy unless receive dopamine injections every 20 seconds for nothing...

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

That "People" are unhappy unless receive dopamine injections every 20 seconds for nothing...

And we could say something similar about "that people" currently bashing on trade. You have an amazing form of debating, attacking everyone that disagrees with you. It's like you almost don't want to be taken seriously.

Mission accomplished. I'm out.

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Phrazz wrote:

Have you offered more than one calorie to look it to how

Surely you must know when we're getting the Chinese trading system?

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Surely you must know when we're getting the Chinese trading system?

?

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Phrazz wrote:

?

The grammar lol

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

The grammar lol

Oh now, I wrote a "t" instead of a "n". "It to" instead of "in to/into". And that is what you decided to focus on? It's like debating with [removed by me].

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Phrazz wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

The grammar lol

Oh now, I wrote a "t" instead of a "n". "It to" instead of "in to/into". And that is what you decided to focus on? It's like debating with [removed by me].

So what does "Have you offered more than one calorie" mean?