[3.5] Dyg's NoLyco Cospris Life/CI - 15-20M REAL Shaper DPS - [All Content ezpz] - Low/High Budget


Ignoring your feelings on the issue which are irrelevant to the quality of this build (I mean seriously, you're the thread's build creator, quit stamping your feet):

1) Those 410k numbers are what YOU provided in your "TRUE DPS" portion of your build, where you arrived at your 15m figure. I copy and pasted. If you'd like to upgrade your chest DPS to 500-700k be my guest, just paste the PoB so we can verify it, as no one else has done yet for even the first one until now.

2) I see someone else has already addressed the offhand issue with a simple Google search, which we all assumed someone with explicit disdain for inflated PoBs would have researched.

3) "on hit chance if you were say auto attacking and alternating attacks, you are completely foregoing the mechanics of cyclone just to further your own point.

Cyclone rolls at the beginning of the attack to determine if its a hit or miss, crit or non-crit. Therefore, all subsequent attack from that chain are decided from the initial roll. Your math and perspective is based on those attacks being independent, and they are not. Next youll say spectral throw hits are independent too."

That is not how this works. Even IF cyclone took alternating hands to determine a crit chain (best case it's average of the two, worst case, it uses MH always, beats me), over a million cyclone hits the figures would tend to the average of MH and OH crits

You applied a 100% instead to ALL of your calcs. Your crit chance is >8% off, and your hit further applies another 92% modifier. I think, between one of us ignoring math to make a point, it's the guy who just shrugged off 16% of misses or non-crits to pad fulfil the 15m damage calc.. The question is, even after this is being pointed out, you're somehow turning it on someone who understands the mechanics of cyclone and insisting that the figure your calculated shouldn't be adjusted? Is this borderline delusion?

There is only one way to test if it always uses the MH crit on the initial roll (really, really bad for the build) or alternates between MH and OH is to actually get close to 100% crit and cyclone veryyyy slowly into the pack so you can see if the first hit crits 84% of the time (bad) or 88% of the time, but that's insane and no one's going to do that. However:

Pasted from more mechanics threads:

[–]TavrobelFun detected, activate the nerfton torpedoes 6 points 4 years ago*
> It uses the crit chance of the weapon making the attack. If your attack alternates weapons, it will alternate which weapon the crit is based on. If you are using Dual Strike or Cleave, it uses both as technically, you're hitting twice in one attack (it's possible for one of the weapon hits to crit and for the other to not).

So let's assume that you will crit 92% of the time when you Cyclone with your offhand leading and 92% * 92% on Cospri's (84%)

Average of 84 and 92 is 88.


4)
Spoiler
I find it interesting that you think adding lyco would somehow increase the amount of chest ice nova procs we get... I guess, even if cospris proc rate is half, that our cyclone should be too?


I think you misunderstand, the increases I'm referring are two-fold. The less obvious one is from the hit chance going up to 100%, adding 8/92 = 8.69% more damage at least from the crits caused by the Cospri's just on merit of happening more often.

The BIG ONE, well, as Meive has kindly confirmed for you, because Cospri's trigger is local, you actually gain some DPS from the MH hitting 7.4 times instead of hitting 3.7 each with the MH and then with the crafted dagger. So basically the crafted dagger has to at least surpass the SUM of: losing 8.69% average damage from not buffing MH to 100% hit, AND it must overcome the DPS loss from 'consuming' half the APS in a cyclone.

All in all, and from my own research, you are absolutely right that dropping Lyco and going budget-happy will actually boost damage, but the gap is far smaller than the 8m - 12m on the title of the post because taking Lyco off drops it down a fair bit. I'd still say it's up to a healthy 15%. This is very much in line with what you're saying: 9m for you, getting a leg up over most of the 7-8m damage users out there.


"
Completed 17 Challengesprimaeva wrote:

Ignoring your feelings on the issue which are irrelevant to the quality of this build (I mean seriously, you're the thread's build creator, quit stamping your feet):

1) Those 410k numbers are what YOU provided in your "TRUE DPS" portion of your build, where you arrived at your 15m figure. I copy and pasted. If you'd like to upgrade your chest DPS to 500-700k be my guest, just paste the PoB so we can verify it, as no one else has done yet for even the first one until now.

2) I see someone else has already addressed the offhand issue with a simple Google search, which we all assumed someone with explicit disdain for inflated PoBs would have researched.

3) "on hit chance if you were say auto attacking and alternating attacks, you are completely foregoing the mechanics of cyclone just to further your own point.

Cyclone rolls at the beginning of the attack to determine if its a hit or miss, crit or non-crit. Therefore, all subsequent attack from that chain are decided from the initial roll. Your math and perspective is based on those attacks being independent, and they are not. Next youll say spectral throw hits are independent too."

That is not how this works. Even IF cyclone took alternating hands to determine a crit chain (best case it's average of the two, worst case, it uses MH always, beats me), over a million cyclone hits the figures would tend to the average of MH and OH crits

You applied a 100% instead to ALL of your calcs. Your crit chance is >8% off, and your hit further applies another 92% modifier. I think, between one of us ignoring math to make a point, it's the guy who just shrugged off 16% of misses or non-crits to pad fulfil the 15m damage calc.. The question is, even after this is being pointed out, you're somehow turning it on someone who understands the mechanics of cyclone and insisting that the figure your calculated shouldn't be adjusted? Is this borderline delusion?

There is only one way to test if it always uses the MH crit on the initial roll (really, really bad for the build) or alternates between MH and OH is to actually get close to 100% crit and cyclone veryyyy slowly into the pack so you can see if the first hit crits 84% of the time (bad) or 88% of the time, but that's insane and no one's going to do that. However:

Pasted from more mechanics threads:

[–]TavrobelFun detected, activate the nerfton torpedoes 6 points 4 years ago*
> It uses the crit chance of the weapon making the attack. If your attack alternates weapons, it will alternate which weapon the crit is based on. If you are using Dual Strike or Cleave, it uses both as technically, you're hitting twice in one attack (it's possible for one of the weapon hits to crit and for the other to not).

So let's assume that you will crit 92% of the time when you Cyclone with your offhand leading and 92% * 92% on Cospri's (84%)

Average of 84 and 92 is 88.


4)
Spoiler
I find it interesting that you think adding lyco would somehow increase the amount of chest ice nova procs we get... I guess, even if cospris proc rate is half, that our cyclone should be too?


I think you misunderstand, the increases I'm referring are two-fold. The less obvious one is from the hit chance going up to 100%, adding 8/92 = 8.69% more damage at least from the crits caused by the Cospri's just on merit of happening more often.

The BIG ONE, well, as Meive has kindly confirmed for you, because Cospri's trigger is local, you actually gain some DPS from the MH hitting 7.4 times instead of hitting 3.7 each with the MH and then with the crafted dagger. So basically the crafted dagger has to at least surpass the SUM of: losing 8.69% average damage from not buffing MH to 100% hit, AND it must overcome the DPS loss from 'consuming' half the APS in a cyclone.

All in all, and from my own research, you are absolutely right that dropping Lyco and going budget-happy will actually boost damage, but the gap is far smaller than the 8m - 12m on the title of the post because taking Lyco off drops it down a fair bit. I'd still say it's up to a healthy 15%. This is very much in line with what you're saying: 9m for you, getting a leg up over most of the 7-8m damage users out there.




I saw this build and thought the numbers weren't right, but someone already got to it.

And you actually provided calculations for it.

Styyled said "I initially thought you were being helpful, turns out just pompous, condescending, and sarcastic. I guess thats what you mean by 'discourse helps push builds further'."

No where in Primaeva's first response was he ever 'pompous', 'condescneding' or 'sarcastic'.

He had a legitimate reason to question why your cospri's coc dps was so high and he provided the CORRECT information for your miscalculation and lack of knowledge, but all you did was get all defensive.

No need for that, you could've took this as a learning lesson, everyone learns, even experts and streamers of poe learns something new every now and then.

Instantly defending yourself is making you look worse and making the build worst.
I tried the build, but it feels a bit squishy. There's more than enough damage, but when mapping the monsters sometimes hit really hard, and often I can't leech back quick enough to not die (even with the ES on hit Watcher's eye).
I took out a bit of crit multi, just so I could get over 8k ES, but I still feel like there should be an extra layer or 2 of defense. Any recommendations?
20ex if anyone interested
IGN ARROWUPYOURAZZ

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