Lack of 2nd weapon slot items (scabbards ) for 2h melee (staves too) hurt it s build diversity.

Rank 1 or 2 in what exactly ?
What was you saying ?
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1841353
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i meant ssf hc league ladder.

In ssf hc delve sparrog is rank 2. Sunder Gladiator.
In ssf hc bestiary he is rank 1. Same build.

If its about competitive clearing and getting 100 as fast as possible melee is a realistic option thanks to Sunder.

And ground slam probably do the same shit too if someone would try hard enough. Reave too if it would not be that annoying with the stacks.

EQ, Lacerate and Ice Crash are very good for clearing too eventhough they might not be as competitive due to their FLAWS.

We definitely need a secondary item to 2 handed melee weapons. I mean come on Bows already have the advantage of being ranged but also get a quiver with stats thats op while 2 handed melee weapons suck and are melee.

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The_Human_Tornado wrote:

No there is a reason why a Sunder gladiator is always rank 1 or 2 in ssf hc ladder.

Yes, because a single outlier is all the evidence we need. :|

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ACGIFT wrote:

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The_Human_Tornado wrote:

No there is a reason why a Sunder gladiator is always rank 1 or 2 in ssf hc ladder.

Yes, because a single outlier is all the evidence we need. :|

Its not just a single outliner, ventrua also played sunder raider in abyss i think and was 99 before the next player was 98 before he died to reflect.

Like if melee is really as shit as Deathknight_Berserker says then it must be impossible that stuff like this happens.

And the top player are choosing to play those builds by free will, are they stupid to play melee or what? I really dont think that those guys who really just want to set records in ladder are choosing melee skil gems for being unique snowflakes or any other non pragmatic reason.

Wow, wow i never say melee is shit. :D
I said they lack speed to Ranger in 99% cases.
You look at very thin % in poe, that play hc ssf.
And to get to 100, it`s not about clear speed, but how dedicated you are, how less time your char die(in SC obviously on HC death - gg), how time you spend before the monitor and so on.
Anyway in 99% best clear speed, best mf gear and so on are on Rangers. Mages also have solid clear speed.
And look i have no problem with it. It should be like that. Every character has hes flow and advantage.
But some people just don`t wanna see it and start asking for buff/nerfs.
I`m against that.
In Diablo 2 it was also like that. Paladin(zeal or smite for example), Barbarian(Berserk) for example was lacking clear speed, but was strong on single target, while sors, druid, necro, amazon has better on this thing, but lacking on some other.
So this is all about in ARPG and i think this is what make the game interesting - diversity.
GGG can`t make all character to be equal in str, in life, in defence, in clear speed, in tankines, in single target and so on.

I for example when i play such game, goes for a character look and skill that i like his animation.
I drop Reave, because it`s lack the feeling being really a melee skill. Double Strike for example give me that feeling.

SSF HC is an irrelevant outlier and shouldn't even be considered in the first place.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

SSF HC is an irrelevant outlier and shouldn't even be considered in the first place.

HC is pretty much the base for balance.
SSF means that people need to use their brain more than usual, pretty representative of what's strong and what isn't.

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DeathKnight_Berserker wrote:

Everyone can have their opinion, but i have Marauder and to me two handers is not and never was in bad spot, compare to the others option.

You have not achieved much in this game though.
Sure, you can smash most map's content ( if not all but gardians and what lies beyond them ), because power-creep.

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DeathKnight_Berserker wrote:

Balancing is not for us, there is a team, that know better then me and you.

Yes ..... and no.
GGG adds new elements to the game, players find way to using that GGG didn't expect and they "break" the balance.
Without feedback, it would be much harder for GGG to adjust the game balance and know where they are going.
But feedback needs to come from experience players, who see the big picture, to be meaningful.

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MasterTBC wrote:

We definitely need a secondary item to 2 handed melee weapons. I mean come on Bows already have the advantage of being ranged but also get a quiver with stats thats op while 2 handed melee weapons suck and are melee.

Yes, because archers don't ALWAYS have BOTH hands on their weapon.

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DeathKnight_Berserker wrote:

And to get to 100, it`s not about clear speed, but how dedicated you are, how less time your char die(in SC obviously on HC death - gg), how time you spend before the monitor and so on.

Of course it's about speed Oo
It's about dedication and skill/knowledge, but it's meaningless if you are not clearing at an optimized pace.

PoE has a competitive dimension, and that's where balance matters the most.

You made some good point in there, but my problem that 99% of the guy, that put suggestion to buff this, or nerf this, this guy has 1million damage, i don`t have to the half, nerf his build it`s so so wrong.
This guys are looking at themself.
And what happen, there was so much crying about ES and how broken it was, it was constant, and why, because people are jelous. Oh he have so much ES, we can`t achieve that much life, ES need to be nerfed, and GGG smashes ES to the ground. Now 90% ot player base is life based ....
And the only problem was not the ES, but the instant leech. They nerf both, ES died.
This is what happen, when you listen to player base, who doesn`t care about balance, they just don`t want someone else to have better stats then themself.
And this come from experience players.
Once again not every is using and should use POB and use exactly the same skill/item to be competive.
I`m for challenging game, this is what keep us going, but there is different between challenging and destroy completely some builds, just to nerf others.
And this is what always happen in the end.

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DeathKnight_Berserker wrote:

You made some good point in there, but my problem that 99% of the guy, that put suggestion to buff this, or nerf this, this guy has 1million damage, i don`t have to the half, nerf his build it`s so so wrong.
This guys are looking at themself.
And what happen, there was so much crying about ES and how broken it was, it was constant, and why, because people are jelous. Oh he have so much ES, we can`t achieve that much life, ES need to be nerfed, and GGG smashes ES to the ground. Now 90% ot player base is life based ....
And the only problem was not the ES, but the instant leech. They nerf both, ES died.
This is what happen, when you listen to player base, who doesn`t care about balance, they just don`t want someone else to have better stats then themself.
And this come from experience players.
Once again not every is using and should use POB and use exactly the same skill/item to be competive.
I`m for challenging game, this is what keep us going, but there is different between challenging and destroy completely some builds, just to nerf others.
And this is what always happen in the end.

GGG needs of course to separate good valuable feedback from the rest of course :).
I agree, many are QQing because somebody else did better than them.

That said, there are things like quasi-invulnerable builds that do invalidate part of the content, and I think that it's a perfectly valid concern to raise for example.