I honestly don't know why you bother posting if you aren't going to also bother putting any thought into what you have to say.
It is clear, yes, that your intention was not to have a debate, let alone to understand a point of view that you don't share, but rather to make fun of others. The problem with your plan is you never made fun of the point of view of others. Instead, you invented your own (ridiculous and easily refuted) point of view and made fun of that one instead, pretending that it was that of others.
In addition to being dishonest, this makes you look very silly, so you shouldn't be surprised when people make fun of you in turn. You have no moral high ground from which to express righteous indignation.
PoE bills itself as a completely free2play game with "100% ethical microtransactions." And most people (not all) agreed in 2013 that it was meeting that claim adequately. Many PoE fans no longer feel that way in 2018, due to various changes in the game and the addition of currency/fragment bloat. Yeah, I get it: You don't care about nuanced statements like these, because they are much harder to ridicule. But if you really want to criticize the point of view of others, actually take the time and effort to get it right.
Alternatively, don't make the time or effort, post irrelevant drivel, and then get called out on it. Which is exactly what happened above.
So your actual problem lies with fragment bloat and your perceived need to buy stash tabs to play this game? ah yes, that argument. I don't know how often someone needs to show how to play with four tabs for people like you to grasp this. I don't really give too much clout in people agreeing to something. I just need to look in politics anywhere and see how stupid the people are. And these many POE fans are where exactly? ah yes a loud minority. Don't try to support an argument based on feelings of some people. That's not facts but a poor attempt to mask that you actually don't have any arguments outside you feeling that 4 tabs are not enough. (which is true if you like comfort, but is is not NECESSARY!)
And that was your argument. Again, for 20k time in this forum. You could almost call it... drivel.
Um, what? I never used a crowd mentality to support any of my statements. I merely characterized those commonly expressed opinions. Don't put words into my mouth, please.
I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. I don't call it "drivel" just because I don't share it. I suppose that separates us.
But it is your opinion. And frankly, the ability to do anything in the presence of X handicap has never really convinced me that X handicap does not exist. Does that really seem so outrageous to you?
If you want to try to convince me that a person with 4 tabs wastes no more time than a person with more, in a game where wealth accumulation efficiency is one of the primary "win" conditions, then and only then will you be attacking my argument head-on.
I honestly don't know why you bother posting if you aren't going to also bother putting any thought into what you have to say.
It is clear, yes, that your intention was not to have a debate, let alone to understand a point of view that you don't share, but rather to make fun of others. The problem with your plan is you never made fun of the point of view of others. Instead, you invented your own (ridiculous and easily refuted) point of view and made fun of that one instead, pretending that it was that of others.
In addition to being dishonest, this makes you look very silly, so you shouldn't be surprised when people make fun of you in turn. You have no moral high ground from which to express righteous indignation.
PoE bills itself as a completely free2play game with "100% ethical microtransactions." And most people (not all) agreed in 2013 that it was meeting that claim adequately. Many PoE fans no longer feel that way in 2018, due to various changes in the game and the addition of currency/fragment bloat. Yeah, I get it: You don't care about nuanced statements like these, because they are much harder to ridicule. But if you really want to criticize the point of view of others, actually take the time and effort to get it right.
Alternatively, don't make the time or effort, post irrelevant drivel, and then get called out on it. Which is exactly what happened above.
So your actual problem lies with fragment bloat and your perceived need to buy stash tabs to play this game? ah yes, that argument. I don't know how often someone needs to show how to play with four tabs for people like you to grasp this. I don't really give too much clout in people agreeing to something. I just need to look in politics anywhere and see how stupid the people are. And these many POE fans are where exactly? ah yes a loud minority. Don't try to support an argument based on feelings of some people. That's not facts but a poor attempt to mask that you actually don't have any arguments outside you feeling that 4 tabs are not enough. (which is true if you like comfort, but is is not NECESSARY!)
And that was your argument. Again, for 20k time in this forum. You could almost call it... drivel.
Um, what? I never used a crowd mentality to support any of my statements. I merely characterized those commonly expressed opinions. Don't put words into my mouth, please.
I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. I don't call it "drivel" just because I don't share it. I suppose that separates us.
But it is your opinion. And frankly, the ability to do anything in the presence of X handicap has never really convinced me that X handicap does not exist. Does that really seem so outrageous to you?
If you want to try to convince me that a person with 4 tabs wastes no more time than a person with more, in a game where wealth accumulation efficiency is one of the primary "win" conditions, then and only then will you be attacking my argument head-on.
With characterizing some people you used them to support your opinion, which is exactly what i said. And it is not drivel but almost, exactly because of that. there is no real handicap. especially not one of time. Learning to manage the tabs beforehand even gives you more time as you don't hoard like a chipmunk. (and be slow later on when you wanna find something) You gain the time others use to trade. And currency allocation is the win condition? really? i always thought it was beating the game. Especially for 95% of the gamers that never even seen uber-elder etc. And no, you don't need 20ex geared characters for that. So your personal win condition seems to be the problem. Maybe you should play other free to play RPG + farming games, then you will see what pay to win really means.
Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5
With characterizing some people you used them to support your opinion, which is exactly what i said.
You seem to have missed the context, in which I was shooting down an obvious strawman argument used by another poster to ridicule people who had the gall to suggest that GGG give new players one premium tab.
"
And it is not drivel but almost, exactly because of that.
I was about to respond to the remainder of your argument, but after reading this I changed my mind. I label logical fallacies as drivel, but not differences of opinion.
When will you release a quad stash upgrade for regular tabs? Come on! I have 20 to upgrade! Also, when are the new supporter packs (both temporary and the current series) gonna be released (or at least announced and teased).
You seem to have missed the context, in which I was shooting down an obvious strawman argument used by another poster to ridicule people who had the gall to suggest that GGG give new players one premium tab.
ah the obvious argument which had nothing to do with our discussion. Thats obviously clear for anyone speaking with you... A nice excuse anyway. Our in the real world: a technique in discussions to use arguments for loosly related things which actually have nothing to do with the main context but get you points.
"
I was about to respond to the remainder of your argument, but after reading this I changed my mind. I label logical fallacies as drivel, but not differences of opinion.
As I said, it's apparently what separates us.
as said above. There is no opinion. And i do understand you don't want to respond. i read the rest what you posted in the thread. You don't want a discussion, you want to say your opinion and ridicule everyone that doesn't share it. Thats okay, that the internet. So have fun :)
Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5
You seem to have missed the context, in which I was shooting down an obvious strawman argument used by another poster to ridicule people who had the gall to suggest that GGG give new players one premium tab.
ah the obvious argument which had nothing to do with our discussion. Thats obviously clear for anyone speaking with you...
You are the one who interjected, tsunamikun. AND missed the context in the process. And now you cry foul about irrelevancies.
Take a moment and appreciate the irony, please.
"
A nice excuse anyway. Our in the real world: a technique in discussions to use arguments for loosly related things which actually have nothing to do with the main context but get you points.
"Our in the real world?" Sorry sir, but I have trouble following you. This is not English.
I also know nothing of these "points" you speak of. Please make clear statements of your position, if you disagree with mine. (Or even understand mine. So far you have said nothing that indicates you do.) "Points," you say. What are you talking about?
You are being incoherent.
"
"
I was about to respond to the remainder of your argument, but after reading this I changed my mind. I label logical fallacies as drivel, but not differences of opinion.
As I said, it's apparently what separates us.
as said above. There is no opinion. And i do understand you don't want to respond. i read the rest what you posted in the thread. You don't want a discussion, you want to say your opinion and ridicule everyone that doesn't share it. Thats okay, that the internet. So have fun :)
I rest my case.
But, as you say, thats okay, that the internet.
"That the internet" indeed. I couldn't have said it better.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Last edited by gibbousmoon on Nov 18, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
You are the one who interjected, tsunamikun. AND missed the context in the process. And now you cry foul about irrelevancies.
Take a moment and appreciate the irony, please.
interjected? So you think somehow an argument from a different conversation is in any way relevent to something that with a completly different context?
"
"Our in the real world?" Sorry sir, but I have trouble following you. This is not English.
I also know nothing of these "points" you speak of. Please make clear statements of your position, if you disagree with mine. (Or even understand mine. So far you have said nothing that indicates you do.) "Points," you say. What are you talking about?
I'am sorry about the typo, it should mean out, not our. I also clearly stated my position, which you deliberatly ignore :) And i do understand yours.
As for techniques of discussions, i seem to have overestimated you. Normally you learn how to discuss in school. And to use an argument which is easy to support but has only loosely to do with the main context is used by people who don't have real argments but like win in some small way. Thats what i meant with points.
You are being deliberatly obstruse.
"
I rest my case.
But, as you say, thats okay, that the internet.
"That the internet" indeed. I couldn't have said it better.
I do too. I stated facts, thats not an opinion. You use opinions. Sorry that you missunderstood this. Englisch is not my first language, maybe i articulated that wrong. I well, now i can rest my case as well :)
Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5
As for techniques of discussions, i seem to have overestimated you. Normally you learn how to discuss in school. And to use an argument which is easy to support but has only loosely to do with the main context is used by people who don't have real argments but like win in some small way. Thats what i meant with points.
You are being deliberatly obstruse.
Go trade insults with someone else.
You may have learned that that is "how to discuss" in your school, but I find such behavior to be childish and a waste of time.
When might the next stash sale be? I was a moron and didn't hop on this time they were on sale and now with how much time i'm putting into the game I seriously regret it. Oops.
Good thing, but you should make sure this post is accessible in-game, or at least a suggestion after a character is created, or even before.
I ain't sure a lot of newbies will actually come to the forum to check this post if they don't know it actually exists.
I agree.
Or better yet, improve the intuitive in-game affordances which are part of any good design.
Make damage less spikey so that players actually see their life pool dropping more often without dying and are thereby encouraged to invest in life nodes more. (And at the very least, you should be talking about the importance of life nodes in your tutorial.)
Give out items as quest rewards that actually teach players recipes (an RGB item, or 3 worthless quality armor pieces whose quality add up to 40, with an accompanying instruction to try selling them).
Figure out how to convey the actual benefits (and pitfalls) of armor and evasion, or at the very least include this information in your tutorial!
Remove noobtraps, both in the tree and in your active skill gem selection. You started on this, but you've barely scratched the surface so far. If players can immediately lose merely by choosing the wrong active skill gem (which is represented to be a primary offensive skill), then clearly you have done something wrong.
Et cetera.
The above suggestions all point to rudimentary and necessary knowledge. Not advanced mechanics nor mechanical interactions. Good game design teaches players these things WHILE they play. It doesn't shift the burden onto online guide contributors, nor force players to leave the confines of the game in order to learn its basics.
