How to make everyone happy with lab enchants

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FG_Glory56 wrote:

No head enchant for top tier builds is like 50-100 % more DPS they should be hard to get.

I wonder what kind of build can get 50-100% more damage by just getting a head enchantment?

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smtad wrote:

Disagree. It's unfair for yellow helmets users. Most of my char use yellow helmets. This opinion didn't give any benefits to me.

Well, it does work with rares as well.

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smtad wrote:

My suggestion is simple. Just let enchanting orbs can be traded. And adjust chances for all enchantments.

Powerful enchantments have lower chances to be acquired.

But then there's no point in placing an item in the divine font.
You're still unable to find the enchant you want by yourself. You will need to trade with someone who will likely be in the lab if he found worth the time to sell the enchant you need.
This would also greatly decrease the value of enchants in the market especially the value of enchants on good bases.

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Mmimich wrote:

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smtad wrote:

Disagree. It's unfair for yellow helmets users. Most of my char use yellow helmets. This opinion didn't give any benefits to me.

Well, it does work with rares as well.

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smtad wrote:

My suggestion is simple. Just let enchanting orbs can be traded. And adjust chances for all enchantments.
Powerful enchantments have lower chances to be acquired.

But then there's no point in placing an item in the divine font.
You're still unable to find the enchant you want by yourself. You will need to trade with someone who will likely be in the lab if he found worth the time to sell the enchant you need.
This would also greatly decrease the value of enchants in the market especially the value of enchants on good bases.

1. To acquire the same rare is much harder to acquire the same unique. So I say it's unfair...or it's only for unique.

2. What I mean is that you can bring enchanting orbs out of lab and trade it.

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smtad wrote:

1. To acquire the same rare is much harder to acquire the same unique. So I say it's unfair...or it's only for unique.

2. What I mean is that you can bring enchanting orbs out of lab and trade it.

1. Finding the same or better base at same or better ilvl is not that hard. If it's a shaper or elder item then i agree with you but that just mean your item is more valuable and will become even more valuable with the right enchant. Getting the enchant you want on it should be expensive.

2. Ok, I might have misunderstood at first.
I thought that you were suggesting that you could trade the enchant with the result plain visible.
If it's not the case, then it looks much more reasonable. However it wouldn't change things that much. It would even profit for lab runner selling their enchant but it wouldn't change what you get on the market. If you want a non meta enchant then you need to buy a huge quantity of them and play the lottery because it won't be on the market. Players will buy them in bulk and spam them on meta helmets and sell when they get a meta enchant.

If what I understood at first is right and that you're suggesting to be able to trade enchants with visible guaranteed rolls then I was already writing something :

"GGG doesn't want you to have easy access to everything. So, if we want to work on the matter, we have to find something that fit the game and what it is intended to be.
I understand the appeal of your solution but it would make things way to easy.

Currently, if you wanna make a OP helmet, you start by picking a ilvl 86 shaper/elder T1 helmet. You then make it 30% quality, give it white sockets and do uberlab to find a good enchant. Then you craft its affixes.

If you could craft it, give it 30% quality, slap on it the enchant you want, in the order you want without any risk then such an item become way more accessible and loose a lot of its value. It would be way easier to finish a character and the game would loose a bit of its appeal and end game playability."

Bumping since I added a wall of text at the end of my initial post.

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Mmimich wrote:

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smtad wrote:

1. To acquire the same rare is much harder to acquire the same unique. So I say it's unfair...or it's only for unique.

2. What I mean is that you can bring enchanting orbs out of lab and trade it.

1. Finding the same or better base at same or better ilvl is not that hard. If it's a shaper or elder item then i agree with you but that just mean your item is more valuable and will become even more valuable with the right enchant. Getting the enchant you want on it should be expensive.

Yeah, more valuable as in 'less accessible'. Now, nerfing item acquisition aside, how would that make everyone happy with lab enchants? Sorry, I must be missing something here.

Edit. Okay, I read your post again with more thought put on it. I'm playing SSF so all the economy ramblings passed by me first. I guess you are right about the investment part. I already bother lab only if I have simultaneously double enchant prophecy and that pale council prophecy chain up, since lab is super boring. Losing a hard earned unique due to enchanting rng, however, could hurt quite bad. I'm sure it's not punishing enough for trade league player as they can always buy another one. So, yeah. I guess it leaves me disqualified to answer.

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Mmimich wrote:

1. Finding the same or better base at same or better ilvl is not that hard. If it's a shaper or elder item then i agree with you but that just mean your item is more valuable and will become even more valuable with the right enchant. Getting the enchant you want on it should be expensive.

2. Ok, I might have misunderstood at first.
I thought that you were suggesting that you could trade the enchant with the result plain visible.
If it's not the case, then it looks much more reasonable. However it wouldn't change things that much. It would even profit for lab runner selling their enchant but it wouldn't change what you get on the market. If you want a non meta enchant then you need to buy a huge quantity of them and play the lottery because it won't be on the market. Players will buy them in bulk and spam them on meta helmets and sell when they get a meta enchant.

1. It's not true. Finding the same rare usually not easy, even if the rare is not very powerful. For unique item, the cost is similar for every the same item. But for rare, it's more and more expensive if you want to find more the same rares.
For exp:
This helmet, I can find a similar one for 20c. But what if I need 4 ones? The 4th one list 15ex!


So, it's very unfair, if you use unique item, you can use 80c to buy the same 4 items. But if you use rare, you need to use 18ex to buy 4 ones!

2. I'd said enchantments chance should be adjust if they can be traded. Powerful enchantments should have lower chances.

While I understand the intends of the OP, I don't think that GGG is willing to increase the availablilty of these very rare and powerful enchantments.
It is most likely that if GGG would pick-up the OP's proposal that GGG will create a compensation to avoid increasing the availablilty of helment enchentments.
The OP's proposal is only creating unnecessary complexity for a the illusion of having a chance to bias the outcome of the enchantment.

No thank you.

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smtad wrote:

1. It's not true. Finding the same rare usually not easy, even if the rare is not very powerful. For unique item, the cost is similar for every the same item. But for rare, it's more and more expensive if you want to find more the same rares.
For exp:
This helmet, I can find a similar one for 20c. But what if I need 4 ones? The 4th one list 15ex!

So, it's very unfair, if you use unique item, you can use 80c to buy the same 4 items. But if you use rare, you need to use 18ex to buy 4 ones!

2. I'd said enchantments chance should be adjust if they can be traded. Powerful enchantments should have lower chances.

1. We're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about base items and you're talking about rares with good rolls.
I think that it should cost more to make something good into something great than to turn something meh into something good.
If you wanna enchant an item like the one you linked, I suggest that you start by getting the enchant and then craft what you want on it. It's not that hard.

2.Read the whole "GGG doesn't want [...]" part of my previous comment.

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Synopse wrote:

While I understand the intends of the OP, I don't think that GGG is willing to increase the availablilty of these very rare and powerful enchantments.
It is most likely that if GGG would pick-up the OP's proposal that GGG will create a compensation to avoid increasing the availablilty of helment enchentments.
The OP's proposal is only creating unnecessary complexity for a the illusion of having a chance to bias the outcome of the enchantment.

No thank you.

Yes, it would increase availability of lab enchants on cheap items but still at a great cost 0.5~2 ex worth of gem on average, depending on your skill.
The more expensive your item is, the less likely it is that you'll use this method because it wouldn't be worth it.
GGG could weight the ones that are to strong. The issue with my idea comes from auras which have only one possible outcome.
Yes it's complex but it's just for economical and availability reasons. You could see this as a secret deep into the lab that would justify exploring and doing the lab for more players. The purpose is just to make the game more enjoyable for players and making them want to play longer. What's the point of lab if players don't do it and just buy on the market if their build is meta.
I don't get the illusion part.

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vmt80 wrote:

Edit. Okay, I read your post again with more thought put on it. I'm playing SSF so all the economy ramblings passed by me first. I guess you are right about the investment part. I already bother lab only if I have simultaneously double enchant prophecy and that pale council prophecy chain up, since lab is super boring. Losing a hard earned unique due to enchanting rng, however, could hurt quite bad. I'm sure it's not punishing enough for trade league player as they can always buy another one. So, yeah. I guess it leaves me disqualified to answer.

I'm mostly playing SSF as well, but the game shouldn't be balanced around SSF (sure, keeping it in mind would be nice).
I wouldn't use this method on the only unique I have for my main, but I would use it on rares if I wanna craft an upgrade or on other uniques I would want to use to reroll if I got the enchant.

In trade league I would spend 10 ex to get my enchant that no one sell, for my hipster build, if I need it or of it's the least expensive thing to get to upgrade my character. But that's what it would cost because of the sink for helmets it creates.
I think GGG should create sinks for items to keep softcore leagues healthy. My suggestion happen to be one but it's just helms. There should be more for the rest of the gear.

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Mmimich wrote:

1. We're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about base items and you're talking about rares with good rolls.
I think that it should cost more to make something good into something great than to turn something meh into something good.
If you wanna enchant an item like the one you linked, I suggest that you start by getting the enchant and then craft what you want on it. It's not that hard

It's not hard, it just costs many exalts to craft. That's my point, you can acquire many the same uniques with similar cost. But I have to spend many exalts getting similar rares even if I only spent 20c buying the first one from markets.