for everyone who wants a challange

"

robmafia wrote:

it's like this game/genre is supposed to be about making choices where the results matter, or something.

it's like there should be a reason to make a solid build with actual defenses and try to stay alive, or something.

it's as if there should be risk:reward or something.

screw that. 0 life/es nodes, 0 defenses, prefixes all for damage on gear, 8946783543854 billion dps cast on death build, because imbalanced failures should still get their participation trophies and are just as good as balanced builds that can actually kill map brutus without dying.

Stop putting the cart before the horse, removing the death penalty does not mean we can't be punished for our errors just that most of us think there are probably a better way to do it than an xp penalty.

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Phaeded wrote:

For those supporting the current death penalty because it "teaches a lesson" or something like that, I'm curious... why is 10% the correct amount? Would not the lesson be learned faster if the loss was all XP gained for that level? Or maybe 50%? I mean, why limit it at all if it's supposed to be good for the game and teach players how to beat content? Why not just wipe the bar clean if you die?

To be clear, I'm not currently on one side or the other. I'm just asking questions.

10% seems not too punishing and at the same time still punishing enough to really not want to die in the first 90s, and to have a small but still noticeable effect in the late 80s.
I'm pretty sure that people who die a lot also get slowed or stopped around lvl 80 with it.

5% would feel ... pretty low.
Would more be better ? I don't know, 15% could be something but might also be really harsh in later levels.

Some system punishing players dying many times in a row could also work I guess.
The previous suggestion of a penalty half % based and half based on recent xp/hour gained during leveling time seems quite good tbh.
Still punishing, but a bit less for not efficient players.

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Phaeded wrote:

I mean, 1% would prevent zerging to 100 and cause players to re-evaluate their approach to an encounter,

1% ? not really, and it would be not noticeable at all before level ... what, 92 or 93 ?

With the current penalty, you don't reach lvl 90 with a broken build pretty much, with a really completely broken character 80 or even less would be a limit.

Put it to 5, and you increase that "limit", that threshold where 'broken' builds can't progress anymore imho.

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ffogell wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

it's like this game/genre is supposed to be about making choices where the results matter, or something.

it's like there should be a reason to make a solid build with actual defenses and try to stay alive, or something.

it's as if there should be risk:reward or something.

screw that. 0 life/es nodes, 0 defenses, prefixes all for damage on gear, 8946783543854 billion dps cast on death build, because imbalanced failures should still get their participation trophies and are just as good as balanced builds that can actually kill map brutus without dying.

Stop putting the cart before the horse, removing the death penalty does not mean we can't be punished for our errors just that most of us think there are probably a better way to do it than an xp penalty.

holy bad analogy. the cart and horse are already attached. it's the way the game was and is...

and an xp penalty seems literally mandatory to keep people from just zerging to 100 with bad builds. like i said about 10 times now - if the xp penalty is removed, every char makes it to 100 if given enough playtime.

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ffogell wrote:

Stop putting the cart before the horse, removing the death penalty does not mean we can't be punished for our errors just that most of us think there are probably a better way to do it than an xp penalty.

Please explain what kind of punishment GGG could do to counter bad all damage glass canon builds then.

My vote : for each time someone die he get send in sarn arena for 30 minute.

all equipped items are immediately sent to rayamn's stash upon death.

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Head_Less wrote:

Please explain what kind of punishment GGG could do to counter bad all damage glass canon builds then.

My vote : for each time someone die he get send in sarn arena for 30 minute.

You have to reassign 10 skill points, the game unassigns your 10 highest dps nodes which do not block a path. Until you're done, all +dmg nodes are blocked and life nodes are highlighted :)

This is probably kind of stupid but it occurred to me so what the hell... what about instead of a penalty that makes you go backwards you instead had a penalty that stopped you from going forwards? So let's say that 10% XP at level 90 is 1 hour of mapping (just picking some numbers for demonstration purposes). What if instead of losing an hour of XP you just can't gain XP for an hour? Each time you die it adds an hour on to whatever time you have left, up to a maximum amount (maybe 24 hours?).

Seems silly even having typed it but I think that would have the same exact affect yet feel less bad maybe? I don't know. Clearly it seems something must impede progress for it to be a rational death penalty, otherwise what's the point in having a penalty at all?

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Phaeded wrote:

... what about instead of a penalty that makes you go backwards you instead had a penalty that stopped you from going forwards?...

No: Anything that makes you stop playing is bad business. In your example, a person might think "ah, it makes no sense to play any further as I anyway won't get any XP" after a death. And might stop playing. But GGG needs to keep people playing as much as possible.

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SisterBlister wrote:

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Phaeded wrote:

... what about instead of a penalty that makes you go backwards you instead had a penalty that stopped you from going forwards?...

No: Anything that makes you stop playing is bad business. In your example, a person might think "ah, it makes no sense to play any further as I anyway won't get any XP" after a death. And might stop playing. But GGG needs to keep people playing as much as possible.

People are logging out now, so I'm not sure that is relevant. At least this way they won't feel like they moved backwards before logging out, so maybe they'll log back in again.

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Phaeded wrote:

"

SisterBlister wrote:

"

Phaeded wrote:

... what about instead of a penalty that makes you go backwards you instead had a penalty that stopped you from going forwards?...

No: Anything that makes you stop playing is bad business. In your example, a person might think "ah, it makes no sense to play any further as I anyway won't get any XP" after a death. And might stop playing. But GGG needs to keep people playing as much as possible.

People are logging out now, so I'm not sure that is relevant. At least this way they won't feel like they moved backwards before logging out, so maybe they'll log back in again.

And the next time they log in, they'll see that they get no xp for the next hour of playing and will massively demotivated. Sure being demotivated when you stop is bad, but as soon as you start?

IIRC the death penalty used to be 15%, and they lowered it to 10%. People are going to keep complaining no matter how many times it gets adjusted, and it's doing its job just fine at the current rate.