1 abyssal socket is absolute trash while 2 socket is BiS...

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Demonoz wrote:

You quite obviously never got a hold of Ullaman...

He was the first abyss boss I fought this league.
SSF HC, I went in blind.
Didn't seem any difficult, like honestly, he didn't scare me or anything, I just ... killed him, that was it.


It was on a spectral shield throw bleed character, I fought abyss bosses with a poison cycloner later but no Ullaman ( they were quite easy too for this char tbh ).

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The_Risen wrote:

I rest my case.

So by your logic, Atziri's Promise is never worth using, amirite? Wow, 32% of the ladder must be absolute SCRUBS for using such a garbage flask that isn't even worth an alch! And similarly, wow, alternate art on an item must make it FAR more powerful!

Or rather, we can recognize that TRADING VALUE is not the same as USEFULNESS.

This game has a full market economy, NOT a command economy. As a result, the prices are dictated by supply and demand.

In the case of 2 vs. 1-socket Abyss uniques, yes, items will get EXPONENTIALLY more valuable the closer to "perfect" they want. Because the 2-socket ones are outright superior, so yeah, everyone would prefer them. Demand is MUCH higher for the 2-socket versions, so prices are driven up as people fight over the finite supply of 2-socket uniques.

Shifts in demand, by FAR, dictate the trading value of uniques in this game. Lots of items have slipped out of the "chase" value category in spite of no nerfs at all: Andvarious, Hegemony's Era, and Kongor's Undying Rage simply stopped being META, and their price plummeted. Similarly, Windripper went from a multi-exalt item pre-2.0, to being vendor garbage, and now is again the most valuable unique bow, with very few changes to it.

I mean, an item gets featured as a core of a Build of the Week, and its value goes up by a factor of 3 or more. (See: Apep's Supremacy and The Red Trail)

And lastly, yes, the rolls on the same item will exponentially scale its desirability, and hence value. A 10% quantity Ventor's Gamble is worth a LOT more than a 9%, in spite of it only being 1/9th better.

The truth is, the fact that one-socket uniques are still worth a handful of chaos means that there's strong demand compared to supply: MOST uniques settle to an alch or less because supply so much exceeds demand!

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ACGIFT wrote:

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The_Risen wrote:

I rest my case.

So by your logic, Atziri's Promise is never worth using, amirite? Wow, 32% of the ladder must be absolute SCRUBS for using such a garbage flask that isn't even worth an alch! And similarly, wow, alternate art on an item must make it FAR more powerful!

I'm comparing 1s VS 2s abyssal items, to show the abysmal difference in power betweem them, that's the point. Other items are not even considered in this discussion.
It's just so freaking annoying and stupid to get the item with only 1 socket, IT WAS CLEARLY DESIGNED TO HAVE 2 ABYSSAL SOCKETS, having them with only 1 socket is like A FLAWED/FAKE version.

I bet ggg was like "hey let's make it have 1 or 2 just to artificially increase their grind or milk their tears".

I would rather have rarer lich fights with the guaranteed drop instead of getting the drop and realizing it's not even worth TO PICK IT UP, let alone use a wisdom scroll on it.
Imho it should always have 1 or 2 sockets, but if the first case is true, then the helmet, gloves and boots should be buffed. Or, like i said in previous posts, let the players decide how many abyssal sockets they want through master crafting (vorici), let's see how many people use it with only 1 abyssal socket rofl.

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The_Risen wrote:

I'm comparing 1s VS 2s abyssal items, to show the abysmal difference in power betweem them, that's the point. Other items are not even considered in this discussion.

Naw, the 1-socket ones are still definitely worth using: that's why, say, Tombfist is still worth several chaos even with only one socket, which makes it more valuable than the vast majority of uniques.

That's because while getting the maim on hit is nice, in most builds this does not actually improve your clear speed; it's the intimidate part that's what you REALLY want.

Of course, the two-socket version will be worth more just because it's nicer, even if the improvement is only very incremental: again, the price difference isn't a matter of power (as this isn't a command economy with prices set by the balance team) but just by the market, which agrees that, if they can get it, they'll still want the 2-socket version just for that very mild upside.

It's the same reason why, say, a perfectly-rolled unique is worth several times that of one that is just one or two points off of perfect. There's certainly no "huge" difference in power between a perfect-roll Windripper, and one just shy of that... But the price comparison is like 120 exa vs. a mere 5-20. The non-perfect one is almost indistinguishably as good, just that everyone can agree that the perfect one is TECHNICALLY better.

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ACGIFT wrote:

"

The_Risen wrote:

I'm comparing 1s VS 2s abyssal items, to show the abysmal difference in power betweem them, that's the point. Other items are not even considered in this discussion.

Naw, the 1-socket ones are still definitely worth using: that's why, say, Tombfist is still worth several chaos even with only one socket, which makes it more valuable than the vast majority of uniques.

That's because while getting the maim on hit is nice, in most builds this does not actually improve your clear speed; it's the intimidate part that's what you REALLY want.

Of course, the two-socket version will be worth more just because it's nicer, even if the improvement is only very incremental: again, the price difference isn't a matter of power (as this isn't a command economy with prices set by the balance team) but just by the market, which agrees that, if they can get it, they'll still want the 2-socket version just for that very mild upside.

It's the same reason why, say, a perfectly-rolled unique is worth several times that of one that is just one or two points off of perfect. There's certainly no "huge" difference in power between a perfect-roll Windripper, and one just shy of that... But the price comparison is like 120 exa vs. a mere 5-20. The non-perfect one is almost indistinguishably as good, just that everyone can agree that the perfect one is TECHNICALLY better.

tombfist 1 socket worth a damm? hmm, only in hardcore it seems. still not more than 4c and still an awful item.

You're basing item value on market price, which is derived from rarity of such items

As far power level of item goes, the difference between one socket and two socket versions isnt nowhere as big as the gap between the rarity of one socket and two socket versions


Now stating item x is garbage because it isn't worth anything in market and is super common, is pretty silly

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The_Risen wrote:

tombfist 1 socket worth a damm? hmm, only in hardcore it seems. still not more than 4c and still an awful item.

The fact that you CONTINUALLY go on with griping with "oh noes, it's ONLY 5c," just shows that you're not even paying any attention to its power.

Again, refer to my comment about Atziri's Promise. Or most "meta" (or merely popular) items that have low rolls. E.g, Starkonja's Head. By your standards, it's an "awful item" because it's worth all of 2 chaos... Unless it's got good rolls. 100 life and close to 130% increased evasion? Yeah, it's suddenly a multi-exalt item.

You're just salty and griping because you don't instantly get an exalt+ item every time you run into a lich.

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ACGIFT wrote:

"

The_Risen wrote:

tombfist 1 socket worth a damm? hmm, only in hardcore it seems. still not more than 4c and still an awful item.

The fact that you CONTINUALLY go on with griping with "oh noes, it's ONLY 5c," just shows that you're not even paying any attention to its power.

Again, refer to my comment about Atziri's Promise. Or most "meta" (or merely popular) items that have low rolls. E.g, Starkonja's Head. By your standards, it's an "awful item" because it's worth all of 2 chaos... Unless it's got good rolls. 100 life and close to 130% increased evasion? Yeah, it's suddenly a multi-exalt item.

You're just salty and griping because you don't instantly get an exalt+ item every time you run into a lich.

You're just stupid and didn't understand my point, i'm comparing tombfist 1s with tombfist 2s, i'm showing the DISPARITY between those versions of the SAME item. I'm not saying it's trash because its cheap (but in this case, it is, probably never used unless it's a n00b or SSF).
Also, fyi, a good rolled atziri's promise (19-20%/14-15%+) now is worth 20-30c, it took me days to find a good one worth only 10c+-.

I'm salty because of your stupidity and because of said item disparity.
Also, if it always dropped with 2 sockets, then the item would be worth way less than an exalted.
Also, it's not worth an exalted, the gloves were 40c+- in the end of flashback (but if it was 1 socket, then you could find some for 1 alchemy or a couple alteration).

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The_Risen wrote:

You're just stupid and didn't understand my point, i'm comparing tombfist 1s with tombfist 2s, i'm showing the DISPARITY between those versions of the SAME item. I'm not saying it's trash because its cheap (but in this case, it is, probably never used unless it's a n00b or SSF).
Also, fyi, a good rolled atziri's promise (19-20%/14-15%+) now is worth 20-30c, it took me days to find a good one worth only 10c+-.

I'm salty because of your stupidity and because of said item disparity.
Also, if it always dropped with 2 sockets, then the item would be worth way less than an exalted.
Also, it's not worth an exalted, the gloves were 40c+- in the end of flashback (but if it was 1 socket, then you could find some for 1 alchemy or a couple alteration).

So... You're that pushed to the edge that you have to resort to petty insults, AND the best you can come up with is repeating use of the word "stupid?" Please, tell us how how you're a great player at this game that knows everything better than everyone else.

No, you're just flat-out WRONG. I only had to drop down a couple of places to find yes, a level 100 on the Incursion ladder using a 1-socket Tombfist.

And anyone with the most elementary knowledge of economics can tell you that if an item trades for more than a chaos, that means someone is definitely using it. Otherwise they'd never sell, and new listers would keep having to undercut each other until there were tons for 1 alt to 1 alch.

The truth is, no, there's not a huge difference in power between the two. Part of it is that you either generally benefit from murderous eye jewels (melee) or searching eye jewels (ranged) but you'd be hard-pressed to make use of both at the same time, as many of those rolls could go to waste. Similarly, you might either want Intimidate OR maim, but really both isn't a huge advantage for most circumstances.

So no, it's just TECHNICALLY better (by a narrow margin) and because of that, the demand is higher. Again, you've offered ZERO explanations for the "power gap," continuously pointing to the price difference and then claiming it's not just that, without backing things up.

You're out of any real arguments, and sputtering because you've been called on your BS.

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The_Risen wrote:

"

ACGIFT wrote:

"

The_Risen wrote:

tombfist 1 socket worth a damm? hmm, only in hardcore it seems. still not more than 4c and still an awful item.

The fact that you CONTINUALLY go on with griping with "oh noes, it's ONLY 5c," just shows that you're not even paying any attention to its power.

Again, refer to my comment about Atziri's Promise. Or most "meta" (or merely popular) items that have low rolls. E.g, Starkonja's Head. By your standards, it's an "awful item" because it's worth all of 2 chaos... Unless it's got good rolls. 100 life and close to 130% increased evasion? Yeah, it's suddenly a multi-exalt item.

You're just salty and griping because you don't instantly get an exalt+ item every time you run into a lich.

You're just stupid and didn't understand my point, i'm comparing tombfist 1s with tombfist 2s, i'm showing the DISPARITY between those versions of the SAME item. I'm not saying it's trash because its cheap (but in this case, it is, probably never used unless it's a n00b or SSF).
Also, fyi, a good rolled atziri's promise (19-20%/14-15%+) now is worth 20-30c, it took me days to find a good one worth only 10c+-.

I'm salty because of your stupidity and because of said item disparity.
Also, if it always dropped with 2 sockets, then the item would be worth way less than an exalted.
Also, it's not worth an exalted, the gloves were 40c+- in the end of flashback (but if it was 1 socket, then you could find some for 1 alchemy or a couple alteration).

That's like complaining that a perfectly rolled Ventor's Gamble is worth far, far more than a low-rolled one. You just add insult to injury by calling other people stupid while being the one unable to understand basic concepts of market and economy. I'll rate this thread 2/10.