[3.3]Templar/Hie Kitava spell spammer! Mana stable at 26 possible spells per second!

Finally someone willing to interact with me in a positive manner! My core objective here is to use an item/items that don't see much use in poe. And at the same time make a decent playable build. From here we venture into the realm of figuring out how to make this all work together. I believe that I have at some levels achieved and other are's have not.

Quick deference:
1) Absolutely do have a diamond flask.
2) in all my attempts vs the hydra I consistently landed shocks.

Onto the constructive criticism.... Yes, PoB is something I find a bit confusing and struggle with. Seems like it never addresses things like "wise oak flask"... I can't even find it in the unique list and I can't make one from the create an item templates. Some skills are confusing because they affect the damage taken not the damage dealt. All in all I agree that PoB damage calculations are deceptive and confusing. I myself have criticized other builders for falsely inflating their damage claims for builds using skills like barrage. Barrage is completely not represented properly by pob and neither is Poison handled well by it. As far as my damage calculations go, I addressed it in a latter post. I felt that 1 30% helm trigger was reasonable for the damage calculation putting the build at 688Kdps. I then claimed the build was (700K dps or more). Do you feel that was an honest and reasonable calculation? If not what would you feel is a honest and reasonable estimate?

Lets talk about arcane surge from the Hierophant ascendancy. Its level 10.. Says so in the Poe Wiki. I felt that adding it to the skill chain at a higher level was more beneficial than placing it on the Ascendancy tree. Mainly because of the cast speed and the 1% mana leach. Since totem builds need totems, that is 4 of my points, the First part of arcane surge bonus is 2 points, But then the last two points seemed better spent on gaining power/endurance charges rather than gaining a level 10 surge. Could I have done better with an open skill socket? I don't believe I could.

BoTW submission. Its my long term goal to make a botw. More than that really. I want to be the guy with more BoTW's than anyone else. That may be funny to you, But I'm taking it seriously and putting in the effort. I've seen elements of my previous builds used in Botw "friends with benefits specifically", But I have not yet achieved my goal. The video you refereed to in your reply was just a cut and did originally have discussions about the build. However since my average viewer length is only 2 min I chose to cut ahead to a point where there was actually something interesting going on. I was hoping viewers would stay a little longer to watch the breach clearing at lest to boost my viewer retention stats. Of course I should not compromise on quality of my work, but honestly nothing happened in the first 7.5 min of that video.

I have a lot of respect for streamers who do a good job and never realized just how difficult it could be. Having only streamed on and off since last November I'm still on the learning curve. A marked improvement to be sure, I don't say "um" a million times and I'm better at not staying silent for long periods of time. Plenty of room for improvement to be sure. I've just barely scratched the surface of video editing which is time consummating and completely overwhelming in complexity.

Quote: Brass Dome does not prevent you from taking additional damage, it prevents you from taking extra damage from critical hits. Regular hits and degens will hurt for the extra amount.

Yup No extra damage from critical hits kinda does sound like immunity to critical. My understanding of this may be lacking as you pointed out.

All in all I do appreciate the response and I'll be sure to refer back to it often while I continue to improve the build. I'd greatly appreciate more discussion... Do you see any areas of this build where I've done well or have made interesting/creative choices?
Last edited by blackice001 on Jul 12, 2018, 9:40:31 PM
Hey there, out of town, but I thought back about the post and checked to make some additional comments.

Shocked as a player debuff or enemy debuff amplifies the damage they take from all sources, by a percentage equal to the shock calculation for the initial hit vs. their total maximum life. The wiki does a good job of explaining this in detail if you're a math hound, but basically, it scales from 1% additional damage taken to 50% additional damage taken at maximum shock *intensity*.

When I watched your T15 sunken city and saw you using arc on aramala, you shocked her only a few times. The value of the shock, due to the fact that it was so low as to rarely apply, I would guess to be around the 1% - 5% increased damage taken amount. You are succeeding in applying a miniscule shock. Here's the turn however, that 1-5% shock is reflected onto yourself, and 5% additional damage taken from ALL Sources is tremendously bad! That is a huge handicap.

The reason being thus: Armour mitigates physical hit damage, but the rule of thumb is that armour will never prevent more than it's value divided by ten. Thus, in order to prevent enough damage against large hits, your armour total has to be in the tens of thousands to even cut off half. Some monsters in this game hit for 10-15k per swipe. Giving them a 5% buff is a terrible idea for damage reduction calculation.

Armour only mitigates physical hits, as I mentioned prior, it does not help with elemental hits, chaos hits, elemental degens (burn) chaos degens (poison) or physical degens (bleed). All of these are amplified by having 1%-5% shock effect on your character.

And the kicker as to why this was so un-intuitive to you initially, is that your front-end damage is being dealt by totems, not yourself. Yes, you can shock targets and thus earn the equivalent shock on your character, however you are only using arc to do shock, which reasonably has a very low damage modifier and really isn't shocking for much. As I alluded to, if you were doing more damage with your shocking ability, and applying a larger shock, you would be eating dirt sandwiches far more often and wondering why.

So finally, let me re-address the confusion with your usage of the brass dome. You still receive critical hits, it does not eliminate them. However, the additional damage multiplier from critical hits is null, so critical hits only hit you for as much damage as regular hits would of that attack. Critical Hits are a completely different mechanic than 'enemies take additional damage', and the player version 'you take additional damage' while shocked. one uses the word critical hits. the other uses 'you take x more damage'. sometimes the game is that asinine, and I realize it can take tons of time to master all of those intricacies. But that's a considerable difference.

I do have a solution for your build, however I am not entirely pleased with it. You really desired to use maligaro's restraint for the ability to shock yourself and thereby overcome the high defender_max_life present in bosses etc. You don't want to be 'immune' to shock, because then the entire interaction will cease to function. What you are looking for is 'unaffected by shock', which would mean that you still 'hold' the shock debuff however have no additional damage taken because of it.

Inpulsa's Broken Heart

I as well as many others use this chest armour for various reasons, it's Tier 1 popularity because of how it functions to improve clear speed, and it deserves to be nerfed... but it has that elusive tag 'unaffected' that would enable your concept.

My original contention with your approach was that your damage that was applying the initial shock was so low, that the shock was ultimately really lackluster. A solution to this would be to have low life monsters to hit in order to easily reach the required 50% shock cap. Even though you are only doing 15k hits of lightning damage, if you hit say... a worm that only had 1hp and instantly was destroyed upon hit...

The Writhing jar

With enough duration modifiers to shock, you could easily maintain a permanent 50% shock 'aura' on your character, and this would effect all enemies for the same tremendously large modifier (and you could not be faulted for using 'shocked' in PoB). This is not a new concept, it's simply been retired as other, stronger and higher synergistic combinations have dominated builds. Your use of that mechanic is completely up to you to revive.

--
Arcane Surge as a support gem only requires that you spend the required amount of mana for *Any* spell recently (last 4 seconds), it does not care what ability you used to spend this mana cost, and many people utilize a movement skill or tertiary skill to trigger it. Think orb of storms + curse o hit + some curse + Arcane Surge (at whatever level is possible to ensure it always triggers for the mana cost of this 4-link). You don't have to do it this way, and yes you're right the resulting arcane surge is only going to be a small modifier to your overall character's output, but that was never the issue I identified in the build to begin with...

You spent 2 of your 8 ascendancy points to enable arcane surge to buff your overall damage in a huge way. As long as you had arcane surge happening *somehow* you would gain the benefit of that ascendancy choice. You omitted arcane surge entirely from your build (as I stole your active character and links, not your pob). That means those two points were entirely dead.

Additionally, the character I pulled did not have a diamond flask equipped. That is why I mentioned it. I can't remember if the video showed you using one either. Inconsistency was my focus. As long as you're aware it was not equipped and was ticked on.

The Wise Oak is in PoB, it does work, and you would benefit from having it. However, for most *real* dps on bossing it's typically best to record what your damage is with zero flasks as a baseline as some fights will drain your flasks before being finished... the only builds I ever ignore that point with are Pathfinders due to the nature of flask finding.

I've been around since closed beta, something like 10,000 hours in-game and who knows how many more offline learning about it, watching streams, discussing builds, oh goodness thank god PoB doesn't have my /time played recorded..... and I'm still learning things. I'll never be done with that until I quit. Don't be disparaged by that, it's meant to illustrate that this is a deep enough game to make mastery worth the effort. I typically don't do this deep of a dive into submissions, I highlight why builds don't get added and move on, however I recognized that you weren't trying to 'slip one over', you just were at a point where you wanted to keep learning, and this was where you were so far. That made the spurious bits innocent, and that is why on satellite internet for 3 days I wrote this. I hope you continue to enjoy PoE, keep making builds, and someday know more than I.

Cheers
Hot Flashes: poeurl.com/bPZT
Balance: poeurl.com/btzp
Shocking EleHit: poeurl.com/bZXo
Last edited by Kwitch on Jul 14, 2018, 7:32:59 AM
Hey kwitch thanks for the reply. Just loged in to scream my triumphant six link... bout 70 fusing I've never been so lucky linking.
.

I've decided to edit the build slightly. Onslaught was causing me to go over 3 arc cast per second and didn't help much against single target bosses. A suggestion from kwitch pointed out that I could force a self shock with the writhing jar.
With some tinkering and experimentation I noticed I could drop faster casting for onslaught and trigger it with a writhing jar during boss fights in addition to reflecting shock. This still keeps me in the 3 casting range nearly 100% of the time. During map clearing if I run out of run flask charges I can also gain a speed boost by triggering the onslaught with writhing jar. Seeing that the jar has a few different utility options, I couldn't help but adding it to the build.


This item originally confused me into thinking that I would not be able to utilize the restraint damage bonus because it left me unaffected by shocks. Another big hint from Kwitch pointed out the item interaction didn't actually stop me from being shocked, but rather stopped me from suffering the extra damage due to shock. There are still other aspects of this item I need to be sure about. No longer being protected from critical hits extra damage may mean I loose a lot of the builds tank. I've reduced the number of reckless defense's that I was using and now with only 20% increased chance to take a critical hit I am starting to feel comfortable. I also added 20% less damage from critical hits onto the skill tree to further compensate for the huge loss in damage reduction. The question I'm having is which is worse taking an 80% of a critical hit 20% more often, or suffering the effects of shock all of the time.

I'm not sure if this item will work out in the long run but the two changes noted above have given the build a lot more dexterity when avoiding enemy spells and attacks. This might work out better for the hydra, but the huge physical hits of the Minotaur might I might have done better with the brass dome. I won't be sure till after I experiment with these items more.

Big thanks for the suggestions. And I'll keep everyone posted on the improvement process. I think I'm gonna take a shot at the Hydra Sunday. If nothing else I need to see that my defenses hold, and were not reduced in favor of damage more than needed..


Hey some new video's!!!
T14 Dark Forest with the Impulsa's Broken Heart------->https://youtu.be/MCouK0p4j8c
T14 Abyssal depth's with Glorious_Bigbeard------------>https://youtu.be/Knp24koMHjU
Kitava's Spell Spammer vs. Hall of Grand Master's----->https://youtu.be/juS-3vojZa4

Last edited by blackice001 on Jul 16, 2018, 12:47:19 AM
And for tonight's entertainment I will be streaming live from 5:30pm EST 4/18 till I drop from exhaustion.

Our build has spent the last few days experimenting with Impala's Broken Heart, However, I believe the defenses of the brass dome are just flat out better. So for tonight we will be utilizing the Brass dome and testing the guardians against the build. With recent video's I should be able to determine once and for all which of these armors will be the end game choice.

The current build has deviated from the build guide's passive tree by adding 33% more electric damage and 43% more cold damage. This actually puts the dps with the Brass Dome slightly above the Impala's 50% electric damage bonus as the freezing pulse totem's cold damage is the builds backbone. In addition to the Guardian fights I will also be running a few uber labs in hopes for the elusive 40% freezing pulse damage enchantment, along with maps in the rage of T13-T15 .

If this build interests you please take the time to view the Builds video's on my YouTube page. Tell your friends about the live stream and join me in chat to have a few good lolZ. I would greatly appreciate if you left your opinions/constructive criticism either here or on the community streamers page.

Big thanks for you support and interest in helping a new streamer become a success! Also please consider supporting GGG by purchasing mtx and those awesome supporter packs.

https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=ScxSoMJNACA

I will bump the thread when the show begins!
Last edited by blackice001 on Jul 18, 2018, 9:53:37 PM

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