Why do you force me to do stupid beast content?

Just avoiding dangerous red beasts is not always an option.

Some of the red beasts simultaneously do some (or even all of the following):

* Move faster than my character, even using a travel skill, and even if they stop for two frames to kill a totem or minion or two
* Regenerate life faster than the character can do damage
* Kill my character within one or two hits if I stop moving at all to try to fight back, or set up a more effective escape, do anything else

Combine this with being chased into other packs that would not normally be dangerous except you cannot stop to fight, and with maps with confining layouts where running is not practical, and there is a real problem.

And yes, I try to go around them with an alternate path if the map permits; or distract them with minions or totems, if the build has them; or, outrun them with travel skills if the build has one that is effective.

Its not so bad during leveling, as you can always sacrifice the instance, and start a new one at the loss of some ground covered. But when it happens in an expensive map that you used currency on, that is very frustrating.

"

Boem wrote:

"

Kanthos wrote:

I hope it will not come to the core game. I stopped playing this league because the beasts are annoying and stop a fluent play and therefore break the immersion for me. I am forced to do this but i won't because i don't like it.

Fighting a tougher mob that doesn't simply fall over but requires some tactical or strategical exercise to overcome is immersion breaking in an arpg?

/newgenerationgamers?

Peace,

-Boem-

There are many problems:
1. All desirable to play builds can one-shot mob packs and/or kill off-screen beasts.
    Having to stop doing that to mouse over the beasts to see that it's new and needs to
    be netted breaks the rythm of map/zone clearing.
2. Having to micro manage a bunch of different net types is tedious and stupid.
    If GGG streamlined it to just 2 types of nets, 1 for live beasts and 1 for resurrecting
    the dead beasts needed in a recipe then that would be a big help.
3. I don't see the point of having a 30 beast bag limit. Let us capture as many as we want
    (at least store the menagerie count in an unsigned integer so we can go to 65535 limit).
    If GGG insists on the 30 capture limit per beast at least when we do get a beast that can
    be bagged but isn't new at least show us the current quantity of that beast in our
    menagerie so we can instantly decide if we want to capture more of them or not.
4. When we hover over a beast and get it's info when it is a capturable beast better use of
    colors should be used to visually indicate that beasts recipe importance. Maybe green,
    yellow, and red colors to indicate it's value in recipes (green = low value recipes,
    yellow = medium value, red = high value beast required for the rare recipes).
    I'm sure everyone has killed beasts that are needed for rare recipes but don't know it.

GGG can make beast capturing/sacrificing into a core part of PoE but they really have to make this very user friendly which as it stands now is anything but friendly and this is why we are not wanting to have to do it. If GGG refines the netting process (as per our suggestions) then having it be a core part of the game it ok by me (but as it is now it's too tedious and frustrating to have to do).

"

saj14saj wrote:

Just avoiding dangerous red beasts is not always an option.

Some of the red beasts simultaneously do some (or even all of the following):

* Move faster than my character, even using a travel skill, and even if they stop for two frames to kill a totem or minion or two
* Regenerate life faster than the character can do damage
* Kill my character within one or two hits if I stop moving at all to try to fight back, or set up a more effective escape, do anything else

Combine this with being chased into other packs that would not normally be dangerous except you cannot stop to fight, and with maps with confining layouts where running is not practical, and there is a real problem.

And yes, I try to go around them with an alternate path if the map permits; or distract them with minions or totems, if the build has them; or, outrun them with travel skills if the build has one that is effective.

Its not so bad during leveling, as you can always sacrifice the instance, and start a new one at the loss of some ground covered. But when it happens in an expensive map that you used currency on, that is very frustrating.

I think you overreacting. Personally hate pokemon league too, but if you have problems with yellow/red pokemons, you can just avoid them easily. They are clearly marked on minimap, all you have to do is to not approach too close. Or, in layouts with problems to run away, like shaped waste pool or torture chamber, you can clear everything else to be sure, you can escape without threat, you encounter some other enemies.

From my point of view strong beast are far better then pack's of monsters with bloodline mode on maps with rippy modes and complex layout. When you encounter red pokemon, you can escape. When you kill a pack of monsters with corrupted blood and hit some obstacle during escape (whirling blades/shield charge), you are dead.

The same thing is with monsters using "heralds of obelisk". You run at them, one shot almost all, but in the meantime great number of obelisks appears, you run on obstacle and... bum. You are dead. Pokemons are breeze even compared to "old" version of beasts with reflect. Or even normal monsters influenced by divine shrine. You are dead before you figure out, what happens and why you can’t kill anything :)

"

saj14saj wrote:

Just avoiding dangerous red beasts is not always an option.

Some of the red beasts simultaneously do some (or even all of the following):

* Move faster than my character, even using a travel skill, and even if they stop for two frames to kill a totem or minion or two
* Regenerate life faster than the character can do damage
* Kill my character within one or two hits if I stop moving at all to try to fight back, or set up a more effective escape, do anything else

Combine this with being chased into other packs that would not normally be dangerous except you cannot stop to fight, and with maps with confining layouts where running is not practical, and there is a real problem.

And yes, I try to go around them with an alternate path if the map permits; or distract them with minions or totems, if the build has them; or, outrun them with travel skills if the build has one that is effective.

Its not so bad during leveling, as you can always sacrifice the instance, and start a new one at the loss of some ground covered. But when it happens in an expensive map that you used currency on, that is very frustrating.

So you spend time contemplating the league mechanic and approaching the game differently as without the league being active?

Some designers might call that a success story.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

So you spend time contemplating the league mechanic and approaching the game differently as without the league being active?

Some designers might call that a success story.

What you are really suggesting is only using that subset of builds that are not terribly vulnerable to being one shot by the worst of the reds, and have the speed to run away or sufficient damage and defense to kill them.

Being further restricted to a smaller subset of viable builds is not what I would call a success story.

"

Boem wrote:

I'm calling the trigger police on your ass!

/pewpew

Peace,

-Boem-

It happens and that's alright. Some things are worth getting triggered about; like for instance a section of the gaming community that want changes to the game limited to adding a bunch of Jiggly Puff monsters with loot sacks and anything different than that is game breaking and build limiting.

The game offers infinite possibilities and not all of them should be viable in my opinion. Is there any reason why a CI/BM build should be viable? No, because it's a bad choice. Same with other builds that are not well thought out. The meta builds are an easy way to know the answer, but there are game breaking builds found all the time that are not meta (and then become the new meta). That's where the diversity is; builds found and yet to be found. Some of us enjoy the cookie cutter builds while others enjoy making the cookie cutter.

Bestiary is a middle finger to the speed meta only in that if you want to partake in it, you may have to lay off the right click for a moment -- or make a build that works with it (just like many other mechanics in the game). I will concede there are some valid arguments from my optic that should be resolved, but that's been true for just about every mechanic released ever. Hell, Strongboxes were not met with a very positive reception because of several issues including everything appeared instantly causing issues for wood PCs, bad connections and glass cannons because you had to open the box at melee range. Over time they tweaked it to be a lot more balanced and for higher performance.

Perhaps they should just make it a simple opt-in model. You meet Einhar and he asks if you are interested in catching beasts, Yes/No. If yes Bestiary mods included. If no, no beasts spawn and you can activate later if you like with Einhar in town. Then everyone wins; except those that feel the need to keep the game limited to their cookie cutter.

Love the crying, keep it up!

"

Nubatron wrote:

The game offers infinite possibilities and not all of them should be viable in my opinion. Is there any reason why a CI/BM build should be viable? No, because it's a bad choice. Same with other builds that are not well thought out. The meta builds are an easy way to know the answer, but there are game breaking builds found all the time that are not meta (and then become the new meta). That's where the diversity is; builds found and yet to be found. Some of us enjoy the cookie cutter builds while others enjoy making the cookie cutter.

Should molten strike do 9x the damage of infernal blow because its molten strike? There are many builds that are extremely well thought out that just cap out early because some skills are fundamentally broken that isn't anything to encourage IMO and the more OP you make a skill the harder it becomes to justify the others even if its not balanced around.

Its ironic because I thought removing double dipping would widen options available, but actually you went from being able to scale just about any skill with a sizeable DoT if you needed single target to a good chunk simply being nonviable, we lost ignite/poison/bleed and replaced them with nothing (at least poisons got a few options now but still)

Meta builds are just meta because they are the current proven viable way to conquer the content in the easiest way they don't have to inherently ruin the balance because they will always exist they just need to make sure well tooled up builds can actually compete rather than being a tiny fraction.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

Nubatron wrote:

The game offers infinite possibilities and not all of them should be viable in my opinion. Is there any reason why a CI/BM build should be viable? No, because it's a bad choice. Same with other builds that are not well thought out. The meta builds are an easy way to know the answer, but there are game breaking builds found all the time that are not meta (and then become the new meta). That's where the diversity is; builds found and yet to be found. Some of us enjoy the cookie cutter builds while others enjoy making the cookie cutter.

Should molten strike do 9x the damage of infernal blow because its molten strike? There are many builds that are extremely well thought out that just cap out early because some skills are fundamentally broken that isn't anything to encourage IMO and the more OP you make a skill the harder it becomes to justify the others even if its not balanced around.

Its ironic because I thought removing double dipping would widen options available, but actually you went from being able to scale just about any skill with a sizeable DoT if you needed single target to a good chunk simply being nonviable, we lost ignite/poison/bleed and replaced them with nothing (at least poisons got a few options now but still)

Meta builds are just meta because they are the current proven viable way to conquer the content in the easiest way they don't have to inherently ruin the balance because they will always exist they just need to make sure well tooled up builds can actually compete rather than being a tiny fraction.

Molten Strike has been broken since inception. It shreds packs and single target alike on top of the insane LGoH. I played it when it was released and it was miles ahead of everything else...and it's never changed. It has one mitigating factor; the ear rape that occurs from playing Molten Strike. I suppose you could say the travel time of the projectiles is not instant, but it is fast enough.

You'll never find me defending MS in terms of balance. That is a bit of a misdirection though in terms of how I describe viable. Viable to me has nothing to do with comparison to other builds. Viable means can it do something or not do something. The only reference point is the game; not other builds.

Game balance for individual skills is deserving of a discussion generally, which I think the next patch will attempt to address. Folks will be salty about it though because each of us have our own agenda in terms of what and how skills need adjusted.

"

Nubatron wrote:

...

Yeah, I don't tend to find the boss drops appropriately sized to their difficulty but I also tend to think of it as a checkbox for my build too. Can I beat this boss? Build checks out, keep going.

QFT

Cant kill the Red/Boss... fix your build!