XP Death Penalty level 90+

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Personally I think people complaining that 100 should be a near impossible feat to people are just being silly.

We have this grind since the closed beta. It gives players something to do and for some players it's a goal. It doesn't provide you with anything in the game other than bragging rights at best. Why do you want to take that away from the game and from those players?
You won't gain anything by doing this. Great, your characters have 3-5 more skillpoints. I'm sure that's changing the game completely.

This is one of the few games with this mindset specifically for these players and this playstyle but there are a lot of options for games with the "entitlement" BS. You don't have to take the fun from other players, just switch games. There are multiple choices even in the same genre. There is no reason to kill this game.

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toafarmer wrote:

The game should be unforgiving. Just don't ask GGG to ruin their game because you can't deal with frustration.

There, I fixed it for you, and we don't ask GGG to do that, as they seem to be doing a "great job" without requiring our input, but you're right, it's disheartening to experience frustration over all the improvements that GGG could make to PoE as lately, they always seem to miss the mark with their endeavors...

I'm fine with death penalty. I find it frustrating that the last 5-10 levels are such a slow, slow, slooooooow crawl, but it's not game-breaking imo. My highest character is 94 right now. It's not like those extra 6 skill points are gonna make or break the build. I'm just taking my time and if I die, I die.
Besides, levels aren't the only way to progress. There are gem levels, there's gem quality, currency, loot, you always retain some form of progress, even when you die.

I, too, think some sort of death penalty is a necessity to prevent faceroll/corpse camping advancement. It belittles the game content to nothing.

I will say, however, that the penalty becomes noticeably burdensome sometime around level 88...? I think the fundamental issue is that the level discrepancy exp earning penalty becomes so high as you level up that opposing constant exp penalty on death becomes significantly greater than your earn potential.

Meaning the exp you earn per mob drops as your exp penalty on death GROWS as you level up.

Perhaps the death penalty should be scaled down in the same manner as the exp earn penalty increases?

Or phase the exp earn penalty a little fairer?

I know the latter suggestion is counter to every exp adjustment GGG has made in the last 2 years, so do not expect that to happen. Which leaves only paring back the death penalty in proportion to the earn penalty.

Heh, I would actually prefer to have the death EXP penalty up front, when reaching maps, and have it linked to the portals.

So from the total map EXP, each portal would amount to ~16.5% of total penalty (you die 6 times you lose all the map EXP gained for killing enemies, which combined with my previous suggestion regarding how to actually grant all the map EXP (only when dealing with ALL the map content, aka random mobs + boss) would place those limitations UP FRONT. If you don't improve you're still stuck, but without having to endure the slow movement of the EXP bar followed by a "nut kick".

A further idea would be to forfeit a number of portals for a small bonus to the amount that the map provides, but with the concession that each portal would be linked to a higher death EXP penalty (so if you're forfeiting one of the 6, you gain 4% increased monster density for it, but each remaining portal would drop you 20% of the map EXP on death, for example).

Either way, the death EXP penalty should "entice" players to IMPROVE instead of making them "take a break"... So I do hope that GGG will think about at least making it feel "fair", or more "fairer" than now...

Having a death penalty is fine.
Having no means to retroactively regain the lost exp faster is not.

You can build a character that can avoid the common causes of death , but sometimes there is just some BS lurking around a choke point that is an instant death. Sometimes you lag , or a moment skill double procs and you end up dead. Sometimes the stars allign and you get crit several times in a blink of an eye. The point is , a death will happen eventually or you are forced into running lower content causing the gains to be slower.

The penalty or the exp gain needs to be revisted for end game.
Be it through increased minimum exp gained by tier of map, or just higher monster levels in general to match the character levels. Those who reach lvl 100 will do so as they have the support group.
Just make it into something that can be done in 24 hours again.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Heh, I would actually prefer to have the death EXP penalty up front, when reaching maps, and have it linked to the portals.

So from the total map EXP, each portal would amount to ~16.5% of total penalty (you die 6 times you lose all the map EXP gained for killing enemies, which combined with my previous suggestion regarding how to actually grant all the map EXP (only when dealing with ALL the map content, aka random mobs + boss) would place those limitations UP FRONT. If you don't improve you're still stuck, but without having to endure the slow movement of the EXP bar followed by a "nut kick".

A further idea would be to forfeit a number of portals for a small bonus to the amount that the map provides, but with the concession that each portal would be linked to a higher death EXP penalty (so if you're forfeiting one of the 6, you gain 4% increased monster density for it, but each remaining portal would drop you 20% of the map EXP on death, for example).

Either way, the death EXP penalty should "entice" players to IMPROVE instead of making them "take a break"... So I do hope that GGG will think about at least making it feel "fair", or more "fairer" than now...

I understand the premise and seems sound to me, however it runs counter to people wanting to vendor items at their own whimsy, or portal out if the phone rings, or to complete an important trade. Suggestions?

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Scarletsword wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Personally I think people complaining that 100 should be a near impossible feat to people are just being silly.

We have this grind since the closed beta. It gives players something to do and for some players it's a goal. It doesn't provide you with anything in the game other than bragging rights at best. Why do you want to take that away from the game and from those players?
You won't gain anything by doing this. Great, your characters have 3-5 more skillpoints. I'm sure that's changing the game completely.

This is one of the few games with this mindset specifically for these players and this playstyle but there are a lot of options for games with the "entitlement" BS. You don't have to take the fun from other players, just switch games. There are multiple choices even in the same genre. There is no reason to kill this game.

Let me qualify: the race to 100 is a load of crap that meta players can do in a week or two. Naturally, this is far faster than anything the closed beta had to offer, or the open beta either. I remember playing on the open beta, and the xp gain was actually far slower then than it is now. The major difference is the speed in which you can clear maps, except after level 95. It's after level 95 that the xp penalties GGG has put in over the leagues starts to really slow down the grind over the open beta and initial release. But even here, the grind is consistently done expediently as long as you're playing the "right way".

So, yeah, the grind to 100 isn't about skill at all (you don't have to play difficult content). Build, only as it applies to clear speed (powerful builds that clear slowly or play defensively don't usually hit level 100). And for people that think the grind is something momentous, it only is for people that don't play massive amounts of time, or in the "right way." So the grind is less and less about playing for longer periods of time and increasing player retention, but more for playing the "right way."

Is there anything great about getting to level 100? No, not really. But bragging rights is not a concern for the majority of players, where progress ALWAYS is. Don't mistake me saying that the grind is bad in any way, path of exile is purely a grind (they aren't called Grinding Gear Games for nothing). But the grind isn't really the emphasis of the game to get to level 100 -- the emphasis is on clearing maps quickly, ignoring loot and skipping bosses (playing efficiently). Making the death penalty lower, or xp faster for slower clearing builds doesn't really change that. In terms of people playing optimally, I pray for the day when monsters cannot be one shot, movement skills cannot be chained, and people have to pick up loot -- not so much caring if people kill bosses, I already find them rewarding enough (even though I'm in the minority on that one).

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Heh, I would actually prefer to have the death EXP penalty up front, when reaching maps, and have it linked to the portals.

So from the total map EXP, each portal would amount to ~16.5% of total penalty (you die 6 times you lose all the map EXP gained for killing enemies, which combined with my previous suggestion regarding how to actually grant all the map EXP (only when dealing with ALL the map content, aka random mobs + boss) would place those limitations UP FRONT. If you don't improve you're still stuck, but without having to endure the slow movement of the EXP bar followed by a "nut kick".

A further idea would be to forfeit a number of portals for a small bonus to the amount that the map provides, but with the concession that each portal would be linked to a higher death EXP penalty (so if you're forfeiting one of the 6, you gain 4% increased monster density for it, but each remaining portal would drop you 20% of the map EXP on death, for example).

Either way, the death EXP penalty should "entice" players to IMPROVE instead of making them "take a break"... So I do hope that GGG will think about at least making it feel "fair", or more "fairer" than now...

I understand the premise and seems sound to me, however it runs counter to people wanting to vendor items at their own whimsy, or portal out if the phone rings, or to complete an important trade. Suggestions?

Simply make "leave by choice" work as a forfeit portal scenario, without the additional x% increased monster density. The remaining portals will apply an increased death EXP penalty UPON DEATH (so if you used a portal because "reasons", and if you die afterwards, the 5 remaining portals will apply a death EXP penalty of 20% of the total map EXP.

It would really entice "staying alive" as long as possible, and "focused" may I add, in a more "fair" way.

It would also help GGG try to emphasize "attrition" as a way to kill our characters, instead of "one shots"...

In fact, most people use T11, T12 maps to level their 90+ char. Or skip boss fight for T13+ maps.

Gears or builds are not the reason. You can also use glass canon or garbage gears to level to 100. Because you just do T12- maps and skip boss fight for leveling.

So, does death penalty make any sense? No, it dosen't.