What does chance to dodge mean?
" Hello! Evade and Dodge may seem very much the same, however in PoE, that's not the case. You can roll for both dodge and evade when getting attacked. Furthermore, there are nodes like "Unwavering stance" (also found on kaoms roots), that makes you unable to evade attacks but you can still dodge them. So while they seem much like the same thing, they are two different kind of defences. | |
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While I agree that having evasion stacking with dodge is a silly naming convention, it's a long-standing thing within the game, and unlikely to actually get changed.
For those that don't know about how each work, the difference is primarily in how success is calculated. If you have both evasion and dodge: Your evasion rating is compared to your attacker's level, accuracy rating, and whether they are blinded or have resolute technique. This generates a % value for whether you will evade and take no damage, or fail and take the hit (which then interacts with your armour, energy shield and health). If you have 10% dodge, it's just 10% dodge. It won't be affected by resolute technique, blind, or the attacker's level. You can even dodge if you have unwavering stance, which prevents you from evading. If you have both together evasion is calculated first, then if that fails, dodge is applied. So 50% evasion and 10% dodge will be effectively 55% avoidance. Why are they not rolled into one thing? Stacking multiple forms of defense is an intended mechanic. The simplest example is that armour doesnt protect you against spells, so you need resists as well. The reasons for why the system has two ostensibly redundant flavours of the same thing is a balance one. Many builds in path of exile layer multiple forms of defense: not just the base ones. It just so happens that dodge is aimed at evasion based players, and feels slightly redundant, but it's just another layer of defense. Another type of character might have: 1. armour 2. -damage from attacks 3. Fortify 4. endurance charges And they all account to just varying flavours of mitigation, so it's not like dodge/evasion are the only examples of this. | |
" u cant evade spell, can you? Think of it this way:- Evasion is similar to Critical with fire damage, which will cause ignite. Dodge is similar to chance to ignite. Perm. Retired from this unforgiving land of the Exiles.
Self-impost EXILED. | |
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well, whats not being mentioned is the main difference in practice between evasion and dodge and that is that dodge is random and evasion is mostly not random at all.
Situation: I encounter a group of mobs, what happens when I have 50% chance to dodge their attacks vs 50% chance to evade their attacks? With dodge the first monster hits me, I have a 50/50 chance to dodge it, game rolls the dice, rng, I get hit. Second monster hits me, game rolls the dice, rng, I get hit, third, game rolls the dice, rng, I dodge it... every time they attack we roll on a 50/50 chance that I either dodge or get hit, its a completely random form of avoiding damage. Block works the same way. With evasion the first monster hits me, I have a 50/50 chance to evade it, the game rolls the dice, rng, I get hit. Second monster hits me, because I took the first hit and I have 50% chance to evade it is impossible for this hit to land, no dice is rolled, there is no rng, it is not random, its a 100% certain outcome based on the first hit landing that I will evade the second hit because I have a 50% chance to evade. Third hit, no dice roll, because I evaded the second hit the third will always land, the 4th will always miss, the 5th will always land, the 6th will always miss. This pattern of hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, miss will continue with no rng involved, it will be guaranteed to fall into that pattern until I go 4 seconds without an attack being checked against my evasion. At that point my evasions entropy counter will be reset and the next hit that lands will once again be an rng 50/50 diceroll, and depending on if I get hit or miss the forced pattern will begin again. If I had 75% chance to evade it would be hit, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, miss, hit... and so on. With 75% chance to dodge or block being completely random I could still get hit 10 times in a row if I keep rolling poor on the rng, or I could avoid 10 hits in a row if I get lucky. You take your chances with block and dodge, they are not reliable, evasion is 100% reliable, it does what it says it does in the manner that it says it does it every time. Thats one reason why 50% evasion on its own, without taking into account investment or other factors, just looking at an isolated 50% chance to evade, it better than 50% chance to block or dodge imo, significantly better. When you are taking damage from a bombardment of attacks, because the misses are forced into these regular patterns its guaranteed to consistently slow the rate at which you take the damage. You dont block 5 shots in a row and then eat 5 shots in a row faster than you can flask to save yourself, you will take the 5 shots staggered evenly across the 10 incoming attacks exactly halving the speed at which you are taking damage. If you try and facetank a monster who can slam you for 75% of your life, if he slams twice in a row regardless of how much block or dodge you have stacked the 'stars can align' and both slams get through. With evasion, nope, if you get hit with a slam and he then slams again that second slam is gonna miss, you will have that space to leech or pot back, you can take that defence to the bank and that allows you to safely facetank some horrendously heavy hitting mobs every time where block and dodge will eventually fail you, your luck will run out, youll roll 4 bad dice in a row and die, even if ur evasion is 50% and your block/dodge are 75%. Attack crits are also rolled against evasion, you get hit with an attack, you fail to evade it, its a crit, that acc vs evasion rating is then rolled a second time and if the attacker fails the crit is downgraded to a regular hit. So with 50% chance to evade not only are 50% of attacks guaranteed to miss, but also 50% of attack crits on average will be downgraded to normal hits. This does not happen with dodge or block. Dodging a hit cannot stun you, blocking a hit can still stun you based on the damage the hit would have done. This means that in isolation evasion is better than dodge and dodge is better than block. In practice mods that give you a % of your block chance applied to spells mean that having 50% block is easier to then build further defences upon than the other 2, giving block a really hefty upside, theres also more mechanics that trigger on block like life/es/mana returns, counterattacks blah blah. The reality is not mechanics in isolation and its important to factor in the opportunities on a character by character basis. You cant get 40% block and 30% spell block for 5 nodes like you can with dodge, nowhere even close, but then those nodes have drawbacks that block nodes dont... The monsters level doesnt actually effect evasion outside of the fact that all monsters at the same level have the same accuracy rating unless effected by a modifier like increased accuracy aura on a rare, the accuracy roll on a map etc. The % you get is purely based on accuracy vs evasion. |
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what about flat dodge when you rock unwavering stance?
avoidance =/= flat dodge , i think? i guess my question is: can you still get a flat %dodge chance (straight dodge not from evasion stat) to work while using unwavering stance (or IR for that matter)? | |
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ya of course you can still dodge with IR or even Unwavering.
Dodge has nothing to do with evasion, the acrobatics cluster happens to be in the dex part of the tree where evasion is, theme wise its a dexterity style mechanic. But it has nothing to do with evasion at all, dodge is a completely separate mechanic. Theyve started using 'chance to avoid' more now. But its important to understand while they all are ways of not getting hit: Evasion Dodge Block Avoidance are 4 completely separate mechanics with their own rules and their own place in the chain of calculation. Theyre as different as Armour % of physical taken as elemental Endurance charges Arctic Armour all effectively reduce physical damage taken but all of them are entirely separate mechanics. You dont get dodge from your evasion stats, you get chance to evade. It doesnt stack with dodge, 30% chance to evade + 30% chance to dodge will not come together to be 60% chance. You will have a 30% chance to evade something, and if it gets through then you will have a 30% chance to dodge it. |
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" good stuff thanks! | |
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Pretty sure anything that says "dodge" means its a set amount and never changes like evad dodge does
Even if you had 100% evad you still get hit once the counter goes over 99%... 100% dodge you would never get hit at all I could be wrong tho not sure what acc mobs have and what not about evasion | |
" 100% Chance to Evade = 100% chance to Evade. Of course, Chance to Evade is based on attacker Accuracy and is locked between 5 and 95% unless explicitly overwritten. Chance to Dodge is capped at 75% btw. | |
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dp spells count as hits with evasion, and can be evaded?
IGN:Axe_Crazy
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