Stories from Development: The Map System

Motopsycho wrote:
2nd - Your boss balancing has gotten horrible. The reward for killing them just is not there. This was compounded in 3.o when you jacked up their health by a huge amount while doing nothing to make it more rewarding to engage with. And now in Atlas, you imported a ton of multiphase complex boss fights from phase 2 of the act game..... now a boss with a ton of phases is neat and exciting when it's a significant encounter; but when it's guarding nothing and has no real loot, you are just sending a loud and clear signal that engaging with this encounter is a bad use of time. Making bosses not worth engaging with removes the 'end goal 'objective of each map.

I can totally agree with this. At least make the boss drop a fix map with the same tier it was killed on, or something. This way you dont have to worry about MAP-HELL as long as you are capable of killing the boss.

I also agree with this, I have more fun and more rewards playing a new map rathing than fighting a boss that most of the time will bring me nothing but loss of time and also obviously risk.

An idea : along with IIQ and IIR scaled on the number of map mods, introduce a third amount, for example IRC (Increased Reward Chance, name it like you want). This IRC would increase just like IIR and IIQ with the number of map mods, but would directly influence the quantity/quality of maps, currency and uniques dropped. People complaining about map drops would have a chance to increase their map pool at the cost of a boss fight. The high-end uniques would become more accessible. The tougher the fight, the higher the chance to drop nice stuff. Of course the idea needs to be balanced and polished, but you get the idea. To sum up : MAKE BOSSES MORE REWARDING ! :)
Very interesting post, really enjoy reading these.

Just want to echo others that map drops this league basically stopped the game for me. Harbinger was the best league so far. Forget lackluster league mechanics - one could actually PLAY THE GAME in Harby thanks to horizon orbs.

At 25/40 I just can't be arsed to keep grinding for the 'privilege' of more grinding. Funny, seems I can't be arsed to buy a supporter pack either, for the first time in a long time.

Maps ARE the game. Playing the ACTUAL GAME should not be heavily RNG gated. And for fucking sure should not require trading. However it was in the past: this is now. Wake up.
Thank you so much for developing PoE, doing cool stuff and sharing background stories
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Love the background story and insight. Thanks for the great game!
For casual players, the maps was still a big step to make. I remember me self doing those public dock runs over and over till I finaly had the experience level and gear to survive in the maps.
Never the less the map system saved the game. Now you can build unlimited end game content and tweak it even for different kind of builds. I love it. Thank you GGG
Completed 5 ChallengesFelix35071 wrote:
final difficulty level completely flat in terms of area level, so you could play anywhere you wanted in the game. It was also very challenging in terms of monster difficulty. The goal was that players would have immense variety in where to farm

Gotta say, with the game as complete as it is now, I would totally play a "Nightmare" difficulty Wraeclast that's wholly the same level. The whole thing could start at, say, 70, and every time you complete Act X again it would increment by some amount and you'd start over. Quest rewards would need to be redone, but that's about it.
Thats actually a very good idea if implemented properly. Like NG+, another layer of endgame.
dope insight.

"I doubt anyone in our community would disagree, but some Action RPG developers don't realise this and launch with a static world. Having random level layouts, random monsters and random events that occur within those levels means that players can repeat the same content over and over without feeling the same level of repetition that they would if the area was exactly the same each time. "

actually, i would disagree and so would games like grim dawn or nioh. i think what the map system really offers and what makes it interesting is your ability to control difficulty, that is probably the most important aspect of the end game because previously it's completely controlled for you.

i don't think random levels in terms of layout is important, what's more important is the context of what is happening in the level. other aspects of the gameplay can be randomized to enrich the experience, like monster types, monster infrequents that can be deterministically farmed, item drops are always random, level specific drops, difficulty (rolling maps).

the world can be static but if what you are offering behind the scenes and systems are randomized it can be done successfully and will remain interesting to players. poe already violates its premise of random levels are critical in some end game maps like vault which is basically the same everytime you run it. but because it offers things like, drops like divination cards that are exclusive to it, deterministic positioning of dense mobs, and a fun rewards system that offer extended drops in the boss room, it's really fun to run over and over.

i could go deeper into it but that's just some food for thought.

Completed 6 ChallengesXNtrysyti wrote:
MiniMinhMo wrote:
Obtaining maps this time around is a lot more difficult compared to last League. I hope this can be improved for the future.

Actually, obtaining maps last league was way easier than any other league. As much as most people hated Harbinger, the two things it did well: easy map progression (Harbinger/Horizon Orbs) and fast endgame leveling (Beachhead).

Obtaining maps is actually already easier than in older leagues except for Harbinger, due to the Atlas having more nodes than ever and packsize being baked into every mod.

I've had a harder time sustaining my shaped map setups this league than in legacy and harbinger. Both those leagues had things that made getting maps a bit easier, but I also had easy access to a certain item called biscos collar.

Bought one today and ran maps as I had been all league and now my sustain is exactly the same as the last two leagues.

People saying biscos doesn't effect maps are wrong or I'm fucking insane and just suddenly had my RNG turn around when equipping it but hey that's just me....
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Yeah running T13's and getting T5's in return is fucking amazing. Or, better yet, getting no maps at all is even better.

Level 90 and still don't have uber lab yet because I'm missing 2 shitbag trials. And no, I'm not going to troll 820. Why the hell should I? Is that what this "game" has come down to? Trolling for progression???

GGG needs to rethink their strategy regarding drops and game play. Or, fire the idiots that think limiting progression is a great idea. Morons.
The Lab, making a great game good since 2016.

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