ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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1453R wrote:
That's the thing tho. The Constitution currently says "People who are born here are Americans". There's been some push to amend the Constitution and get rid of this, so that Repubs can throw all the Damned Dirty Furriners(TM) out on their asses. Get rid of DACA, spend trillions of dollars we don't have on a wall we don't need, throw out birthright citizenship. All right.

What do you replace birthright citizenship with. How do you get to be an American citizen if the criteria for being an American citizen - i.e. "Be born here, or undergo the immigration process" - is eliminated?

If we eliminate immigration and we eliminate birthright citizenship...who gets to be an American, and how?
As with most places in the world, hereditary citizenship. If both your parents are citizens, you're born a citizen; if both aren't, you aren't; if one is and one isn't, consult appendix C.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
If you change "Russians" to "Jews" you could easily air this on some neo-nazi channel.

GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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1453R wrote:
That's the thing tho. The Constitution currently says "People who are born here are Americans". There's been some push to amend the Constitution and get rid of this, so that Repubs can throw all the Damned Dirty Furriners(TM) out on their asses. Get rid of DACA, spend trillions of dollars we don't have on a wall we don't need, throw out birthright citizenship. All right.

What do you replace birthright citizenship with. How do you get to be an American citizen if the criteria for being an American citizen - i.e. "Be born here, or undergo the immigration process" - is eliminated?

If we eliminate immigration and we eliminate birthright citizenship...who gets to be an American, and how?
As with most places in the world, hereditary citizenship. If both your parents are citizens, you're born a citizen; if both aren't, you aren't; if one is and one isn't, consult appendix C.



Personally, I think that the only times in which citizenship shouldn't be attributed to a newborn is if and only if the mother had no intention to remain and live in the country of birth. IE, vacancies, entry only to give birth and illegal immigration up to a certain point (if the kid started to attend school, it's too late, he's a citizen).
Build of the week #9 - Breaking your face with style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EcQDOUN9Y
IGN: Poltun
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1453R wrote:
A brief question, after dipping my nose back in here during a slow moment.

If birthright citizenship is revoked...how does one get to be a citizen of the United States? Do you have to pay for it when you grow up? Do your parents have to buy it for you in the crib? Do you have to perform X hours of community service in a Girl Scout uniform before you're granted the privilege of citizenship? Do you also have to be a Christian before you can be a citizen? Do you have to not be a Muslim before you can be a citizen? Is the government allowed to revoke your citizenship without warning or appeal? Are businesses allowed to appeal to the government to revoke someone's citizenship? Are businesses allowed to appeal to the government to buy someone's citizenship?

How's this work, if being born in America is no longer enough to be an American?


A good way to answer your question is for you to understand the history of the "anchor baby" problem.

During the time of the civil war, the democrats wanted to deport slaves as illegal immigrants, since they could not own them anymore, so the Republican solution was to change the constitution to say that any child born in the USA is an American citizen.

Before the civil war, anyone born to citizens of the USA was automatically a citizen, the "anchor baby" problem has to do with foreigners who have children in the USA.

The Republicans intention of creating the law was to prevent democrats from deporting former slaves; the intention of the law was never for illegal immigrants to come "anchor" themselves to the USA by having children.

Last edited by Kamchatka on Jan 25, 2018, 7:48:52 AM
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Xavderion wrote:
If you change "Russians" to "Jews" you could easily air this on some neo-nazi channel.


I'm not a fan of MSNBC, but comparing that program reporting on people from a hostile nation attending a world economic conference to nazis is absurd. Hopefully the program tried to put it into some kind of context other than that screenshot you provided.
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CanHasPants wrote:
Who wants to eliminate immigration?


Literally every right-wing screeching asshole in the country. All of them. Not necessarily you, but go down to the deep South and ask the average dyed-in-the-wool red fundamentalist if we should be letting anybody in ever again. Thousands and thousands of people, and most of the politicians shoved into office by those thousands and thousands of people.

We're not even alone in this problem. Britain voted to fuck itself over for decades, upending its own economy and significantly weakening its position in the global community, because a sufficient portion of its citizens decided "PIFF! To shite with those bedamned dirty foreign devils and their seditious, insidious need to be somewhere not covered in bombs and terroristic wars! Out with all of them! Out, out, OUT!" to overrule the ones who tried to stop it.

Now, a natural argument is that 'if so many people want this thing, then according to democracy doesn't that mean it's a good thing we should be doing?' BUUUT...I do believe Scrotie was talking in this very thread earlier about the tyranny of the majority. What a portion of society has been led to believe is good for it is not necessarily what's actually good for it. The burden falls on the rest of us to try and educate people as to why things like illegalizing all immigration, spending billions and billions of dollars we don't have on a border wall we don't need, and deporting hundreds of thousands of American citizens in absolutely everything but name - people who grew up here, who went to school here, who've never seen and can't remember their 'proper' home, and who have absolutely nowhere to go and no prospects at all in their 'birth' country - are things we shouldn't be doing.

Sadly, I'm not good at that. I don't have the deep systemic knowledge to provide a torrent of facts the way Scrotie does, which I'll admit makes me just as bad in many ways. I try to at least anchor my strong opinions on enough research and facts I've verified from enough sources to feel confident in those opinions, but oddly enough I spend most of my time working, and most of my non-working time doing dumb shit like playing Path of Exile. Not as much as I should on extensive current-events and historic research.

That's on me. Junking DACA and threatening to destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans? Continually pitching a fit over not diverting significant funds we do not have to a giant fucking bullshit PR project WE DO NOT NEED? Watching refugees drown trying to cross oceans in dingies and laughing because the filthy scoundrels are so stupid and how dare they not stay in their war-torn hellholes like good little flints?

That's on you guys.
Last edited by 1453R on Jan 25, 2018, 10:17:02 AM
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Xavderion wrote:
If you change "Russians" to "Jews" you could easily air this on some neo-nazi channel.


I'm not a fan of MSNBC, but comparing that program reporting on people from a hostile nation attending a world economic conference to nazis is absurd. Hopefully the program tried to put it into some kind of context other than that screenshot you provided.


Hostile nation? Name one instance in which the Russians were hostile towards us (inB4'ColdWar'). They are pointing out a particular group of people, so yes, the allegory that Xavderion used is very relevant in this instance.
Still in the alpha stage, but at least build diversity isn't an issue: https://wolcengame.com/home/
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1453R wrote:


Literally every right-wing screeching asshole in the country. All of them. Not necessarily you, but go down to the deep South and ask the average dyed-in-the-wool red fundamentalist if we should be letting anybody in ever again. Thousands and thousands of people, and most of the politicians shoved into office by those thousands and thousands of people.

We're not even alone in this problem. Britain voted to fuck itself over for decades, upending its own economy and significantly weakening its position in the global community, because a sufficient portion of its citizens decided "PIFF! To shite with those bedamned dirty foreign devils and their seditious, insidious need to be somewhere not covered in bombs and terroristic wars! Out with all of them! Out, out, OUT!" to overrule the ones who tried to stop it.

Now, a natural argument is that 'if so many people want this thing, then according to democracy doesn't that mean it's a good thing we should be doing?' BUUUT...I do believe Scrotie was talking in this very thread earlier about the tyranny of the majority. What a portion of society has been led to believe is good for it is not necessarily what's actually good for it. The burden falls on the rest of us to try and educate people as to why things like illegalizing all immigration, spending billions and billions of dollars we don't have on a border wall we don't need, and deporting hundreds of thousands of American citizens in absolutely everything but name - people who grew up here, who went to school here, who've never seen and can't remember their 'proper' home, and who have absolutely nowhere to go and no prospects at all in their 'birth' country - are things we shouldn't be doing.

Sadly, I'm not good at that. I don't have the deep systemic knowledge to provide a torrent of facts the way Scrotie does, which I'll admit makes me just as bad in many ways. I try to at least anchor my strong opinions on enough research and facts I've verified from enough sources to feel confident in those opinions, but oddly enough I spend most of my time working, and most of my non-working time doing dumb shit like playing Path of Exile. Not as much as I should on extensive current-events and historic research.

That's on me. Junking DACA and threatening to destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans? Continually pitching a fit over not diverting significant funds we do not have to a giant fucking bullshit PR project WE DO NOT NEED? Watching refugees drown trying to cross oceans in dingies and laughing because the filthy scoundrels are so stupid and how dare they not stay in their war-torn hellholes like good little flints?

That's on you guys.


Congratulations on writing some of the most bigoted stereotyping I've witnessed to date. I'm technically 'in the south' and I support legal immigration, because it's regulated and it's not a 'revolving door' policy that's going to continue to overburden our economy and jeopardize the safety and security of Americans by allowing in unvetted security threats.
Still in the alpha stage, but at least build diversity isn't an issue: https://wolcengame.com/home/
Are you the average dyed-in-the-wool red fundamentalist?

I can point to people I know well and have discussed politics with in the South. I can point to my brother, who lived on a military base five miles from the Mexican border for a number of years. My own personal ass has been up here in Minnesota since it breached its way onto this mortal coil alongside the rest of me, so I can't speak directly to Deep South regional thought - but I've talked extensively with folks who have, and they all tell me that being a 'liberal', leftist, centrist, populist, or in fact anything but a card-carrying Republican in good standing with the Church is damn near grounds for disownment in some places down there.

That's changing, these days. Guys like Trae Crowder are doing more work than they know to let the folks living quietly and just a little fearfully with modern, progressive, more educated opinions know that those opinions are okay. I cheered when Alabama told Roy Moore to go fuck himself, and not just because it was a blow to that gibbering howler monkey besmirching our Presidency at the moment.

I cheered because it was a win for everybody in the South who's afraid to speak up and tell people that not everybody in the South is a backwoods hickerbilly who hasn't updated their worldview since 1843. We need more of that, and I will be thrilled if one day, the generalization that the South is the largest concentration of dyed-in-the-wool red fundamentalists is neither true nor meaningful.

But it is. Sad as that is to say. Exceptions do not disprove the rule, no matter how exceptional they might be. Does that make me an asshole? Probably. Wouldn't be the first time.
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1453R wrote:
Literally every right-wing screeching asshole in the country. All of them. Not necessarily you, but go down to the deep South and ask the average dyed-in-the-wool red fundamentalist if we should be letting anybody in ever again. Thousands and thousands of people, and most of the politicians shoved into office by those thousands and thousands of people.

This sounds strikingly similar to the claim that every democrat is a closet communist. I get it, I was there once too, and it’s difficult to navigate reality when we get our facts filtered through a box on the wall. You say you have strong second hand evidence, but I just don’t believe it. With shit as polarized as it is today, there’s a near certainty that your sources are just as bigoted as those they denounce. Just as you and I are.

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1453R wrote:
Junking DACA and threatening to destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans?

First, it’s deferred action. You don’t tell the bank you want to defer car payments, then bitch up a storm when they repossess your car a year later. ”But, but, I filed a deferment!” DACA was Obama’s way of chicken shitting out of a problem and saying “you deal with this.”

Legal definitions matter. A lot. And they have to be followed like computer protocols—as written, or they don’t work. Here’s the cold hard truth. A policy that establishes a tradition of forgiving people for committing crimes signals to criminals that their antisocial behavior is acceptable. I’m not saying that dreamers are criminals, I’m saying their parents are; dreamers are stuck in a really tough position, because their parents made criminal decisions and got them there. Trump didn’t do that. Republicans didn’t do that. Their parents did. Every time we say “nah, it’s okay,” we endorse the truckload of human rights abuses that the next generation of criminals inflicts upon their children. I, nor any conservative I know, wants to tear apart families, we value human life and family tradition, after all, but we do recognize that there is a bigger problem, and the bleeding heart bandaid solution is just going to cause it to fester and worsen.

That is the crux of the immigration issue. It’s real easy to say “well I think we should let the babies be citizens,” but that’s because someone didn’t think, they chose the answer that felt good. Feels good is the easy way out, for cowards and fools. Feels good fucks everything up, because it never diagnoses all of the symptoms, just the nagging ones on the surface. I don’t want to uproot people and leave them to the wolves (like their bad parents did); I do want to find a solution that doesn’t encourage another 3 million parents to gamble with their children’s lives. It’s irresponsible and reprehensible.
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Last edited by CanHasPants on Jan 25, 2018, 12:14:55 PM

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