Damage Over Time Changes - More Information

"
Synergy1337 wrote:
Why do people say double dipping will be removed? Technically, if elemental damage increases fire skill damage and ignite damage, that is in fact double dipping. Just because global generic damage increase doesnt double dip anymore doesnt mean double dipping is removed.

I came back to this game after several years break and had to learn the mechanics of the game again. I can only speak for myself, but i didnt expect increased elemental damage to both increase the skill and the ignite. The ignite is already based off the skills fire damage, so why would it get increased one more time? Same with poison.

This doesnt make logically sense and is a mechanic that never should have been in the game. But im guessing the developers like to have the game be cryptic and more complicated than it has to be. Then again, double dipping is already in the game and you now suddenly want to make it much weaker and kill build diversity? Poison/ ignite is not even top meta, so why should it be nerfed? If you are gonna nerf damage mechanics you should do it across the board. Just look at the ultra strong builds that doesnt even use poison/ ignite.


It doesn't double dip now, even in the way you suggest. The DoT and the hit get the same additions to them, but now have the same initial damage rather than the multiplied hit damage being the basis for the DoT. So, fire damage will apply to both, but won't apply to the DoT a second time.

They clearly explain how double dipping doesn't apply anymore, and haven't said it in a complicated way.
Last edited by MagusTheGrim on May 7, 2017, 4:23:55 AM
"
Will there be a way to make spells, via tree or gem, inflict bleeding, such as those that deal physical damage, or give minions that deal physical damage the ability to inflict a bleed?

Bleeding is specific to attack damage, so it cannot be applied by spells. We're trying out a new Chance to Bleed support gem during the Beta, so you will be able to easily give your Minions or attacks a chance to bleed.


Any chance of renaming the Lacerate skill gem to something like "Armpitfartswing" so that "Lacerate" can be freed up for the bleed-inducing support gem?
"
MagusTheGrim wrote:
"
Synergy1337 wrote:
Why do people say double dipping will be removed? Technically, if elemental damage increases fire skill damage and ignite damage, that is in fact double dipping. Just because global generic damage increase doesnt double dip anymore doesnt mean double dipping is removed.

I came back to this game after several years break and had to learn the mechanics of the game again. I can only speak for myself, but i didnt expect increased elemental damage to both increase the skill and the ignite. The ignite is already based off the skills fire damage, so why would it get increased one more time? Same with poison.

This doesnt make logically sense and is a mechanic that never should have been in the game. But im guessing the developers like to have the game be cryptic and more complicated than it has to be. Then again, double dipping is already in the game and you now suddenly want to make it much weaker and kill build diversity? Poison/ ignite is not even top meta, so why should it be nerfed? If you are gonna nerf damage mechanics you should do it across the board. Just look at the ultra strong builds that doesnt even use poison/ ignite.


It doesn't double dip now, even in the way you suggest. The DoT and the hit get the same additions to them, but now have the same initial damage rather than the multiplied hit damage being the basis for the DoT. So, fire damage will apply to both, but won't apply to the DoT a second time.

They clearly explain how double dipping doesn't apply anymore, and haven't said it in a complicated way.


I didnt say anything different? Ignite is based off 80% of your base damage multiplied by increases to damage. For me it makes sense for the ignite not to be affected by any increased damage twice since it is already based off your base damage multiplied by damage increases. The only thing they change now is that is that the ignite will only be based off base damage. Increases to fire damage will still dip for the hit and the ignite. For me and other people i have spoken to, this isnt very sensible. Especially considering you already have +burning damage on the skill tree. Just let ignite be affected once by the damage of the hit (base damage + all damage increases). No need to let fire damage affect both the hit and the ignite.

At least that what makes sense for me and other people. Why should increases to fire damage increase both fire skill hit and ignite? Its not that its so complicated, its just not sensible and i dont think new players think it works this way. I certainly didnt before i read the wiki. What i propose is to let an ignite be only based of the initial hit multiplied by increases to damage. Thats it. Then increases to fire damage will only dip ONCE.
IGN: SynergyHC
Last edited by Synergy1337 on May 7, 2017, 7:16:56 PM
I am a lvl 93 Champion Ess Drain/Contagion Tank.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1766555

I was wondering how these changes will effect me when using Essence Drain.

Will I still be able to use the Slower Projectiles gem to boost my Essence Drain damage spread through Contagion? If not, what is a sixth gem I can use now to replace it?

Will we be getting new jewels/gems that support aoe builds, or support Essence Drain builds?

How does Decay work with Essence Drain now?

And also, will Contagion's AOE be getting a boost to compensate for any drop in damage due to possible nerfs to Essence Drain's damage?

Thanks!
[2.4] GrandmasterWarlock (Fortify Caster Ess-Drain Tank) 31k dps, 780 Life Regen, 51k Armor.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1766555
Last edited by GrandmasterWarlock on May 7, 2017, 7:11:54 PM
"
FrankCarnax wrote:
I intended to try the new patch by doing a Ice Spear Ignite build with the Three Dragons mask, focusing on the Ignite damage. Reading all these changes to Ignite fucked up my plans. If I understand, taking Cold Damage in my passive will boost my Ice Spear damage, but it will not burn a lot. Taking Fire Damage will make my Ice Spear do less damage, but burn a lot. Getting critical multiplier will boost the Spear, but not the Ignite. There will be nodes to apply this multiplier to the Ignite by sacrifying the hit damage, but keep the same critical chance?

So if I want to do a lot of burning damage with Ice Spear, I take Fire Damage, Critical Strike Chance for Spells, Critical Multiplier, convert this Multiplier to Ailments. This way the Ice Spear will do a poor cold damage, but it will burn as hell?

And the support gems I can use to boost the Ignite damage is Increased Burning Damage and Added Cold Damage? Other "increased spell damage" or "increased projectile damage" won't affect it?


With Three Dragons Ignite's base damage is based on Cold damage, not Fire. So anything that boosts your base Cold damage will cause your Ignite to start at a higher base damage. Since the Ignite itself is still doing Fire damage, from the DoT manifesto part 1:

"Ignite can be modified by modifiers to Burning Damage, Fire Damage, Damage Over Time, general damage modifiers, and resistances."



Support a free Hong Kong.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei
good to hear that immunities for engame bosses will be gone, that was a needed change, clearing guardians with cold skill was too hard compared to other ailements.

on the other hand, i'm really concerned about changes on double dipping. so far, i play my own builds and i use double dipping (2 out of my 3 builds this league used double dipping). reading some of the comments here, it's like you melt endgame bosses instantly and utterly destroy all content when you double dip. Let's be serious one sec : IT IS NOT TRUE for most builds. I was able to clear all content in the game with my last build only (the other double dipping one fell short but close to it), but fuck, that was hard and no way near some insane exemple of OP builds like the scourge blade flurry, thoses insanes barrage poison builds or the infamous HoWA (pretty sure it was the most used build this league).

the issue i see is that by trying to promote diversity of builds by killing double dipping we will just end up with less builds able to kill shaper/uber atziri.

HoWA/leadsprinkler builds will still destroy endgame content without being touched while most of builds using double dipping will probably be burried.

let's see how this is compensated, but i'm worried this transition will be long, painfull and unbalanced.

not too happy about the new additional affixes on weapons too, i only crafted stuff to sell them after because the chances to get what you want are too low and costly, we need less affixes, not new ones...




"
I am a lvl 93 Champion Ess Drain/Contagion Tank.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1766555

I was wondering how these changes will effect me when using Essence Drain.

Will I still be able to use the Slower Projectiles gem to boost my Essence Drain damage spread through Contagion? If not, what is a sixth gem I can use now to replace it?

Will we be getting new jewels/gems that support aoe builds, or support Essence Drain builds?

How does Decay work with Essence Drain now?

And also, will Contagion's AOE be getting a boost to compensate for any drop in damage due to possible nerfs to Essence Drain's damage?

Thanks!

I'm playing an essence drain occultist and I'm concerned too about these changes.
I'm afraid that to nerf mainstream and op builds they'll nerf essence drain and decay too without balancing them correctly, and essence drain is a build far from being op, it was just pretty good and safe especially for hardcore.

"
Is the design intent of correcting double dipping also going to come with a rebalance of end-game monster HP?
This is something we'll be reviewing during Beta. It's unlikely that we'll change the health of the highest tier content; The most effective Damage over Time builds made the content far easier than was intended

no comment...high end bosses were too hard without any kind of those mechanics.
now they'll be harder for weaker builds.
3.4 Howa Molten Strike CI Occultist Deathless Uber Elder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHmDU4F4POk
"
Zboublemeteor wrote:
good to hear that immunities for engame bosses will be gone, that was a needed change, clearing guardians with cold skill was too hard compared to other ailements.

on the other hand, i'm really concerned about changes on double dipping. so far, i play my own builds and i use double dipping (2 out of my 3 builds this league used double dipping). reading some of the comments here, it's like you melt endgame bosses instantly and utterly destroy all content when you double dip. Let's be serious one sec : IT IS NOT TRUE for most builds. I was able to clear all content in the game with my last build only (the other double dipping one fell short but close to it), but fuck, that was hard and no way near some insane exemple of OP builds like the scourge blade flurry, thoses insanes barrage poison builds or the infamous HoWA (pretty sure it was the most used build this league).

the issue i see is that by trying to promote diversity of builds by killing double dipping we will just end up with less builds able to kill shaper/uber atziri.

HoWA/leadsprinkler builds will still destroy endgame content without being touched while most of builds using double dipping will probably be burried.

let's see how this is compensated, but i'm worried this transition will be long, painfull and unbalanced.

not too happy about the new additional affixes on weapons too, i only crafted stuff to sell them after because the chances to get what you want are too low and costly, we need less affixes, not new ones...






Yes, apparently they want HoWA/leadsprinkler to be top meta and DoT builds to become a novelty.

"The most effective Damage over Time builds made the content far easier than was intended, and with these new changes the bosses should be a more suitable encounter length for powerful builds. "

Lol, just lol. This says it all. They think DoT builds are the only builds that wrecks bosses. Well, whatever. Guess ill just be playing HoWA in 3.0.
IGN: SynergyHC
I am still no closer to knowing how Detonate Dead will work in combination with Ignite.
Is base damage for Ignite also going to be somehow connected to % of killed enemy max life?

Guys, I am having a bad feeling about this.

Just noticed that the DOT-reworks will probably kill various of my builds. It's really frustrating to be so unsure about the upcoming numbers, mechanics, gems and skill-tree changes. Reading through tons of pages hasn't helped one bit.

To be honest I have never been so confused before.

The game should be simple, but all these rules and their exceptions are getting out of hand. Together with the new (=usual "overtuned") content coming up, these changes are practically doomtickers.

I am not happy about fighting overtuned new bosses similar to what Malachai / Daresso / Kaom were at release with underperforming builds because they got nerfed to the ground. Hitting the damage-wall later in the game will be equally demoralizing. My fear is rising these changes either make or break Path of Exile. The game is already a messy affair, but this could get the final deathblow.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info