The Wise Oak Mechanics Explanation

As echoed above it becomes very hard to fully utilize this flask because most players use one of the triad of elemental unique flasks but rarely all 3 on the same character.

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Balanced: 10% elemental RDT and 20% penetration to all elements AND Lucky Crits or Onslaught? That's kind of insane.


I think you grossly under estimate how hard it is to get both effects for all 3 elements granted you typically only need the penetration for a single element in many cases. Players are incredibly stupid and lazy when it comes to min maxing their resists as evident to lightning coil's lack of popularity and the fact many builds will have 20 40, even 60 overcapped resists for no reason other than lack of attention.

Even a dedicated min maxer like myself only has 2 of the 3 resistances in sync and it is no easy task to get all 3 exactly equal. If the flask did not have conditionals then yes, it could never be a diamond of silver flask. I expect popularity and usage to be somewhat limited:
http://poe.ninja/challenge/unique-flasks

In some end game builds, 20% penetration will often be less net damage gain than an atziri's promise without the chaos resistance and leech.
IGN: Arlianth
Check out my LA build: 1782214
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so if you are doing a lot of lightning damage, you can't use this new flask and dying sun together.

on builds doing many different kinds of damage then this flask isn't good at all and still you should not use dying sun with it if you are doing lightning damage


There's no reason that you can't use this flask if you want to use Dying Sun. It would take some tweaking in your gear to ensure lightning resist is over fire during Dying Sun's duration, which really just means running a topaz flask. Vinktar's would work well if you're doing a lot of lightning damage.

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Completed 25 ChallengesNephalim wrote:
As echoed above it becomes very hard to fully utilize this flask because most players use one of the triad of elemental unique flasks but rarely all 3 on the same character.


There's no reason you need to 'fully' utilize this flask. Yes, it is possible to gain all of the benefits, but personally I'm not so much of a min-maxer to want to do that myself. However, you mention the triad of elements and their flasks, which is one of this item's strengths.

Vessel of Vinktar is a topaz flask that, in one of its variants, offers 10% lightning penetration. Assuming lightning resist is now your highest after using Vinktar's, if paired with The Wise Oak you now have 30% lightning penetration--39% if you have the Alchemist node in the tree.

Which is why I'm happy with the end result of the item. It synergizes very well with flasks like Taste of Hate and Vinktar's, making it easy to utilize for a lot of builds; however it's also possible to really tweak your stats and gain a very powerful buff.

Last edited by ToBeSomebody on Mar 6, 2017 3:05:43 PM

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As echoed above it becomes very hard to fully utilize this flask because most players use one of the triad of elemental unique flasks but rarely all 3 on the same character.

There's no reason you need to 'fully' utilize this flask. Yes, it is possible to gain all of the benefits, but personally I'm not so much of a min-maxer to want to do that myself. However, you mention the triad of elements and their flasks, which is one of this item's strengths.

Vessel of Vinktar is a topaz flask that, in one of its variants, offers 10% lightning penetration. Assuming lightning resist is now your highest after using Vinktar's, if paired with The Wise Oak you now have 30% lightning penetration--39% if you have the Alchemist node in the tree.

Which is why I'm happy with the end result of the item. It synergizes very well with flasks like Taste of Hate and Vinktar's, making it easy to utilize for a lot of builds; however it's also possible to really tweak your stats and gain a very powerful buff.



And that is the issue with conditional effects. Is it really worthwhile to spend an entire flask slot for 20% (26%) of a single elemental penetration? In most situation's atziri's promise will provide noticeably more final dps gain.
IGN: Arlianth
Check out my LA build: 1782214
Last edited by Nephalim on Mar 6, 2017 4:16:54 PM
20%, not 10%.
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Yes, you are correct it's 20 % pene.
IGN: Arlianth
Check out my LA build: 1782214
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Completed 25 ChallengesNephalim wrote:


And that is the issue with conditional effects. Is it really worthwhile to spend an entire flask slot for 20% (26%) of a single elemental penetration? In most situation's atziri's promise will provide noticeably more final dps gain.


That depends entirely on the player. The two flasks are similar in that they provide offensive and defensive bonuses. Why not use both? There are five flask slots after all. I'm not here to convince people to use this flask, I'm only explaining mechanics.
Math aside, I think I would like to offer my opinion.

This item is useless. It is utter garbage.

It is useless because PoE forumers evaluate balance at the highest levels of play, and there is simply no need for a flask like this for a CI GR VP sponge that can kill The Shaper in a matter of seconds.

With my opinion established - that this flask is made of complete trash - let's return to maths, and look at its strengths in more detail.

As mentioned in my previous math post, in the most ideal situation I could think of, which almost nobody would take, the Wise Oak's marginal LDT is 30%, which means it grants 42.8% more EHP against elemental Spell Damage. Imagine if Uber Atziri suddenly gained Berserker's famous Aspect of Carnage ascendancy node for a juicy 40% more damage boost. Under ideal conditions, this flask more than negates that. Super nifty.

Under more realistic conditions? I mentioned 12.5% LDT for just vanilla Fortify, which translates to about 14.3% more EHP. How much is that? Life builds tend to get between 100% to 200% increased maximum Life, which means that Belly of the Beast grants between 13.3% more Life (if 200% existing increased) and 20% more EHP (if 100% existing increased). This means that on a tanky Life build, just Fortify makes this Flask grant more EHP against elemental hits than a perfect Belly of the Beast does, which is kinda trippy.

As for offenses.

POEDB claims Izaro has 22% chaos resist and 45% all elemental resists. Given this information it's pretty obvious Wise Oak would give a higher more damage than Atziri's Promise for pure elemental builds (20% pen vs. 15% added as chaos), and as it turns out even if you use one penetration gem, an additional 20% further penetration even beats pure-phys Atziri's Promise (25% added as chaos).

To be perfectly honest, I'm not fully sure how 100% physical -> elemental interacts with Atziri's Flask. Based on my understanding, the bonus sort of double dips, right? In that the 25% added as is applied, then the phys is converted, and then 15% of the converted is once more added. Sounds like a total of 40% of base damage added as chaos. 40% added as is of course hard to beat, but believe it or not, if the Oak is your only source of penetration, it still beats out a perfect Atziri's Promise against Izaro.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I made a spreadsheet for this

And of course, as the creator mentions - these flasks can stack with each other. That's one of the huge strengths of this Flask, in that it grants further bonuses beyond the Flasks that we currently have available to us.

Just looking at the mechanics, the defining aspect of this Flask to me is that it stacks with existing elemental mitigation options. That 14.3% more EHP I mentioned earlier works on top of +x% to maximum Elemental Resistances and has additional synergy with other Reduced Damage Taken modifiers. When I look at this flask I see an elegant solution to Volatile Eleblood for Life-based Melee builds, though I'm not sure the exact numbers work out to always prevent one-shots - probably not, for Guardian/Shaper Maps with 5 damage mods, but I don't know if even the vaunted CI/VP/GR meta can handle those with no risk of RIP.
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Last edited by adghar on Mar 6, 2017 9:39:34 PM
Ah ok I understand now. But why is it called uncapped instead of overcapped !?
IGN: Destrock
My laptop gateway 2010 potato is now completely dead... I have to buy a new one ($$$...)
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Completed 16 Challengesdestrock wrote:
Ah ok I understand now. But why is it called uncapped instead of overcapped !?

Overcapped = the amount above your maximum, +Maxres reduces your overcapped Resists.
Uncapped = total Resists, which is a value that already exists on the stat screen.
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Overcapped = the amount above your maximum, +Maxres reduces your overcapped Resists.
Uncapped = total Resists, which is a value that already exists on the stat screen.


mmhh ok but in my head max resist is max resist and over resist is over resist... :P
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