[R.I.P.] life Mjolner done right by Rico - Juggernaut version - R.I.P. thx to "balancing" policy

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m0tY wrote:

So just to make things clear, if u guys had to compare mara and witch, whos stronger/better. Can u sum up some comparison?

Also my interest is from the perspective of endgame bosses, i guess witch will come out better since the better dmg, rugjt?

I will do proper comparision soon.

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m0tY wrote:

So just to make things clear, if u guys had to compare mara and witch, whos stronger/better. Can u sum up some comparison?

Also my interest is from the perspective of endgame bosses, i guess witch will come out better since the better dmg, rugjt?

Ya what im gonna do is, when I can catch rico and myself onlne at the same time im gonna try to pass em my setup and let em run a couple high end maps, I honestly think its just a very small hiccup atm in gear and golem setup.

I say that b/c I am coming of a powerhouse min/maxd lv97 juggernaut and I could feel the difference when my witch was still in the 80s.

Either way both builds are flat out amazing and there is no wrong answer.

Furthermore all the strengths of the witch build were stolen from Rico, I mirrored his skill tree and then surgically removed small portions to accomodate the life and attack speed needs. Overall both builds are very, very similar.

Tried some T15 corrupted rare maps with heavy mods using Witch/Elementalist with perma RF up and 3 golems (Stone, Light, Ice). This build is more than enough for that, heres a vid from T15 Carcass double boss extra dmg so you guys can have an Idea how it works:


Witch/Elementalist perma RF vs T15 rare Carcass:

https://youtu.be/aGbnvWvv7Vk


My stone golem is lvl 20 + empower lvl 3 + +1 from gloves so its lvl 24. Other golems are 17 + 4 = lvl 21 so they die vs hard content like Guardians. However stone golem at lvl 24 can hold his ground even vs T16 Guardians.

That said I tried T16 Mino (twice) and T16 Chimera (once) with this build and my conclusion is that it is not yet ready vs that kind of content. I killed both guardians but I died once or twice in each fight. I will rewatch videos that I grabbed from those fights tomorrow to see what I can improve (possible life pool + life regen upgrade). Now those fights can be done deathless without touching RF as we have 900+ life regen this way with stone golem witch is lol? I guess. But DPS without RF is ... meh.

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RicoKGB wrote:

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lumpsumhero wrote:

I agree with the guy above. Running flame golem is kind of a pain as it dies way too frequently at high end maps, essentially being used for only a several seconds on bosses. Although, without enlighten lvl 4, I can only get it to as high as level 9 flame golem (17% inc+ damage). Do juggernauts just cast it constantly to make it work? I still have it on my ring though just because it's extra dps.

After I get shaper belt, what else should I aim for? I can aim for a six-link kingsguard or watcher's eye with 1 (or 2) purities.

I dont know how many times it has to be said: golem for juggernaut is 100% optional. It doesnt provide significant dps boost just little bit. Juggernaut can live and kill without golem friend :)

RF is optional as well but highly recommended vs large hp bosses like Minotaur. Build has enough defences and life sustain to facetank T16 Mino, his rocks, and all that mayhem while under RF. And RF is very serious dps boost. It is worth 20 golems if they would stack.

If someone thinks that RF provides just burning dmg than he is wrong. RF first and most important is a huge DPS boost for Discharge as it provides 39%+ MORE dmg. And as we know "more" dmg sourcess are multipliers to total dmg, they dont stack with other "increases", they multiply them.

If somone choose to not use RF - ok! But for me it is to good to pass on it, especially that this build can handle it when in combat.

I hope I made myself clear regarding this subject :)

hmm.. I shall try this out then.

Also, I do apologize for asking so many question. I am extremely thankful as this is only my second build and I feel like this has been such a gift to my play experience, so thank you guys.

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RicoKGB wrote:

I dont know how many times it has to be said: golem for juggernaut is 100% optional. It doesnt provide significant dps boost just little bit. Juggernaut can live and kill without golem friend :)

RF is optional as well but highly recommended vs large hp bosses like Minotaur. Build has enough defences and life sustain to facetank T16 Mino, his rocks, and all that mayhem while under RF. And RF is very serious dps boost. It is worth 20 golems if they would stack.

If someone thinks that RF provides just burning dmg than he is wrong. RF first and most important is a huge DPS boost for Discharge as it provides 39%+ MORE dmg. And as we know "more" dmg sourcess are multipliers to total dmg, they dont stack with other "increases", they multiply them.

If somone choose to not use RF - ok! But for me it is to good to pass on it, especially that this build can handle it when in combat.

I hope I made myself clear regarding this subject :)

Thank you so much for posting this. Been running this build and loving it, but I see so many people going back and forth in this thread about RF. Kept me wondering if it was worth it or not.

I actually have question about 5 discharges/sec. Does more Cooldown Reduction mean I need less attack speed? or is 16% essentially the same as 20% CDR on belt?

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ExiledOdyssey wrote:

Just a quick question I was lucky enough to get a +1 curse voll's. However, due to socket constraints, i'm not entirely sure as to what the second curse I should use or rather how I should use. As currently, a ele weakness repentance is currently too much money how should I go about using the +1 curse?

Link to my current solution (ive removed the blade vortex in place of a second curse as i dont think im short on charge generation from the hit, but i could be wrong)

In general, you have to chose to drop one of the following:
RF
BV
2nd curse

I personally dropped RF for normal running and i'll swap it in if a t16+ boss needs it. You then attach your 2nd curse to your boots where RF is and your counter attack will apply both curses.

I think people just have different ideas of what viable means honestly, on my Juggernaut I never quickly killed the guardians and shaper was always a few phases, but they were safe and steady facetanks without me being in trouble of dying or coming anywhere close.

Im clearing content significantly quicker on my witch atm then i ever did on my Juggernaut at any level but idm slower big boss fights. I never played those 45million fake shaper dps glass cannon have fun losing all your xp every other day builds so this has always felt good to me.

I just dont want to tell people the wrong thing, if viable means downing a guardian in 10-15 sec and shaper before the 1st bullet hell then dont listen to me honestly, I vaporize 1-15 maps and kill all bosses regardless of mods before my 2nd charge of my wise oaks wears off but guardian/shaper/elder wise I just safely widdle them down.

If I farmed uber atziri and shaper on a regular basis i could certainly see making changes but thats just not something I do, like 1% of my play time has been on them so slow and steady has always been good enough for me.

This is so smooth to lv though, already 91, settled on this tree now that i know 1st hand my life will end around 5.8 to 6k.

www.poeurl.com/bP1c

JCOH35 theres lots of right in what you just wrote but its not that complicated for me. Imo to be "viable" vs something is the ability to kill it deathless with some decent margin of error provided for the player aka tankiness/surviviability. But at the same time killing speed must be good enough to do it comfortable and dont fall a sleap. So the build must have a cerain level of surviviability and certain lvl of DPS.

For some players one is less important than another. I like balanced builds.

For me benchmarks for survivability are deathless Guardians, Shaper with max one death, Uber Atziri with max one death, Uber Lab farming, all T13-T15 rare corrupted maps and bosses with heavy mods - deathless. While benchmark for dmg is 300k+ real Shaper dps. This means 40 sec or just under 40 sec T16 Minotaur kill time and this means every map boss under 8 sec.

Why? Because if I do it slower like 60 sec Mino kill time I know that my DPS will be to low for example for Shaper and I will have problems at last phases where most of the ground will be covered in vortexes. Same goes for Mino himself - the longer the fight the harder it becomes due to the failing rocks overlaping, due to the lightning rays active etc. Same goes for manny diffetent boss mechanics like Uber trio and so on.

This is my kind of "feeling" regarding what it means to be "viable".

Some players will tell that his/her 2mil dps build is viable and as far as they can do everything or at least 90% of the content deathless, including maps with heavy mods, Guardians, Elders etc I can agree. But if theres surviviabilty problem I cannot agree.

So far Jugg meets my "requirements" regarding being "all content viable" as this is balanced build with very good survivability so its "newbie" friendly as well. So if I know that it can do deathless Guardian comfortable while using RF I will recommend people to use it as its just faster this way. The only bosses I would not recommend usinf RF are Phoenix, Uber Trio and maybe Shaper (and maybe that Elder who slows things down).

Regarding my current Witch/Elementalist idea - itis not yet there. I will do more testing and tweaking today to see how far I can go with her.

Ya your fine, I dont want to confuse anyone with contradicting advice is all. I like the witch version im running more atm then the Juggernaut I took to 97 but neither is going to melt guardians.

I like the witch for as you say "quality of life" features, for me atleast the mapping is significantly faster, the aoe is great, and the extra immunities are very handy. I havent had any issues sustaining my golems and the rest is the same as my Juggernaut.

I was even running red maps with 4k life b/c everything was such a cakewalk, I just recently started grabbing all my life nodes, saved them for last. Currently sitting at 5.5k, should be able to hit 5.8 minimum though in a few days.