The Death of double dipping in the Fall of Oriath

Everybody knows/knew that double-dip modifiers have been in the gunsights for a lone while now. The ol' Poison nerf a few patches back was specifically meant to (attempt and fail to) address Poison being stupidiculously powerful until they could figure out a proper fix for double-dipping.

Frankly I'm cool with the idea. It narrows the power band and makes it easier to balance the game, and it returns a bit of choice to builds rather than "do Poison builds with stacking 'More' double-dip-valid modifiers or FAIL PATH OF EXILE FOREVER." If done correctly (and that's always the caveat, but let's assume for the sake of discussion that GGG is at least reasonably on the ball for this one), then all this really does is bring the utterly ludicrous builds the streamers are abusing to grind exalts off the rest of us back into the realm of top tier, rather than "lolwut" 20-second Shaper kills.

The game has survived equally giant balance passes in the past. It'll survive this one, and frankly we all know, in our heart of hearts, that it'll likely be better off.

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raics wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

Poison arrow is very dependant on double dipping, projectile damage and all.

Ah, you got nothing to fear then, AoE and projectile bonuses would still apply to the cloud when they remove double dipping. They just won't apply again to poison, bleed and ignite if they already applied to the hit that caused it, that's what we mean by 'removing double dipping'.

Or at least that's how it would ideally be done, who knows, they might not be able to do it because of engine-related reasons but I think it should be possible.

You are right, the cloud does not hit. However, what if they remove generic damage increases from poison (area damage, projectile etc)?

the problem for GeGeGe is the generic dot-damage instance that is generated, and it doesn't seem to know if it was created from ignite or burning (schorching ray). At least that is what i figure. A fix is very much possible

I don't mind if it gets nerfed but I still see vaal pact/leech as a bigger problem.

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ladish wrote:

I don't mind if it gets nerfed but I still see vaal pact/leech as a bigger problem.

until we actually get defenses in this game, the only problem i find with vaal pact/leech is that its absolutely required

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Saltygames wrote:

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raics wrote:

Ah, you got nothing to fear then, AoE and projectile bonuses would still apply to the cloud when they remove double dipping. They just won't apply again to poison, bleed and ignite if they already applied to the hit that caused it, that's what we mean by 'removing double dipping'.

Or at least that's how it would ideally be done, who knows, they might not be able to do it because of engine-related reasons but I think it should be possible.

You are right, the cloud does not hit. However, what if they remove generic damage increases from poison (area damage, projectile etc)?

I don't think they will because that would be very easy, it's pretty much just reverting DoT to what it was so they could have done it at any point. I'm assuming they delayed it to do the whole thing properly.

No reason to whine. Before I was turned onto double dipping I did crit just fine.

Game will become all-crit-all-the-time like before for me. Hell its still GG. Plenty of high end builds don't double dip at all. So they just limiting choices (to crit) at the highend with this nerf. bad move IMO.

Maybe they buff the shit out of the DOT nodes so it's still competitive at some level.

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hoodar wrote:

So, they are going to nerf everything into the ground but buff 1-3 things that will obviously be the meta.


Nothing's changed here.


1000s of possibilities.
5 solid builds.

Haha aint that the truth! Well at least keeps game interesting.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Haha aint that the truth! Well at least keeps game interesting.

'Roadhog balancing' is common in online games. In one patch Roadhog is good and in next patch Roadhog is bad, Roadhog could be average but that isn't good for player retention.

It's to be expected in online gaming era, developers once tried to sell us the game, now they want to keep us playing.

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raics wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Haha aint that the truth! Well at least keeps game interesting.

'Roadhog balancing' is common in online games. In one patch Roadhog is good and in next patch Roadhog is bad, Roadhog could be average but that isn't good for player retention.

It's to be expected in online gaming era, developers once tried to sell us the game, now they want to keep us playing.

Interesting. Makes sense especially for recurring charges like DLCs/Subs/Support packs

aim deep is right though, once double dipping is removed all that will remain is crit, thus shadow/assassin. assassin already has double damage on poisons on crit so that will somewhat make up for double dipping removed.

all double dipping did was make it so you could have a poison/burn build without crazy godly gear. now you won't be able to. if you want the same type of damage numbers you'll have to go crit with the highest damage possible type of gear.

unless of course they remove the % damage of initial hit for base DoT damage, which again i absolutely think they should do.


this legacy league i'll be playing. it will be the first league i'll play and im really looking forward to it. all i know about what i want to do is go raider and almost positive also go crit. probably one handed swords build. BF or lacerate or something