Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I don't even see how you can complain about death penalty when there is over 100 people in breach hard core at 100. They never died and many made it within 1 month. I don't know how many on SC. Point is if you want 100 it can/has be done you just don't want it want it easier.

Well how many of them reached 100 only fighting Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri instead of just using the fastest leveling method by daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges?

We might want some EXP incentive to play those fights but they could be considered everything except easy...

Its "impossible" to reach level 100 only fighting those bosses. Lets also be honest that none of those zones you listed are what I would consider "full maps", maybe uber atziri can give a full maps worth of XP, but the others are smaller zones, with the main focus obviously being the boss\challenge at the end, I guess uber atziri is as well, shrugs.


In regards of doing these fights, when the incentive is not there to do them and it cost more to sustain them, why bother when the reward isn't there? Sure those bosses have some nice drops, but in terms of gaining the most xp\hr with the least effort put forth just doing strands over and over seems to be the "better" play, even if it is more boring.


Personally, I rather t13-15 maps provide the most xp\hr, while letting the strand type strategy be possible, but much less rewarding then what we see today.

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goetzjam wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I don't even see how you can complain about death penalty when there is over 100 people in breach hard core at 100. They never died and many made it within 1 month. I don't know how many on SC. Point is if you want 100 it can/has be done you just don't want it want it easier.

Well how many of them reached 100 only fighting Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri instead of just using the fastest leveling method by daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges?

We might want some EXP incentive to play those fights but they could be considered everything except easy...

Its "impossible" to reach level 100 only fighting those bosses. Lets also be honest that none of those zones you listed are what I would consider "full maps", maybe uber atziri can give a full maps worth of XP, but the others are smaller zones, with the main focus obviously being the boss\challenge at the end, I guess uber atziri is as well, shrugs.


In regards of doing these fights, when the incentive is not there to do them and it cost more to sustain them, why bother when the reward isn't there? Sure those bosses have some nice drops, but in terms of gaining the most xp\hr with the least effort put forth just doing strands over and over seems to be the "better" play, even if it is more boring.


Personally, I rather t13-15 maps provide the most xp\hr, while letting the strand type strategy be possible, but much less rewarding then what we see today.

Of course, and those are my sentiments too, even if I am a stuborn casual n00b hoarder that reached 96.

Keep the additional EXP penalty for daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges post level 95, but reward from an EXP point of view the bad layout maps by removing it, and do boost the EXP that the Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri give so I, and everyone else be tempted to attempt those fights on the grind towards 100...

It would be better, a lot better that way...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Of course, and those are my sentiments too, even if I am a stuborn casual n00b hoarder that reached 96.

Keep the additional EXP penalty for daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges post level 95, but reward from an EXP point of view the bad layout maps by removing it, and do boost the EXP that the Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri give so I, and everyone else be tempted to attempt those fights on the grind towards 100...

It would be better, a lot better that way...

The thing is the mobs in guardians maps would have to give so much XP in order to be a legitimate way to level, considering there are far less mobs there then in regular fullsize maps. The other issue is that the map itself isn't difficult, the bosses are, so how do you reward that appropriately? Put a huge chuck of XP behind the boss kill? Then people do rotations and abuse the hell of of it will culling strike or whatever.


IMO it shouldn't be so heavily loaded one way or another, the incentive to do t15 maps should be there as well, to do t14 maps, ect.


Poe is this messed up pyramid atm, where the risk doesn't equal rewards, where clearspeed is far more important then anything else. I know GGG said they didn't want to destroy the clearspeed meta, but this is far too different from the original principles of the game and when clearspeed in poe is faster then d3, one could argue poe is the more casual game then, seeing as that was not the intention of the design, one could argue it needs a massive change.

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goetzjam wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Of course, and those are my sentiments too, even if I am a stuborn casual n00b hoarder that reached 96.

Keep the additional EXP penalty for daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges post level 95, but reward from an EXP point of view the bad layout maps by removing it, and do boost the EXP that the Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri give so I, and everyone else be tempted to attempt those fights on the grind towards 100...

It would be better, a lot better that way...

The thing is the mobs in guardians maps would have to give so much XP in order to be a legitimate way to level, considering there are far less mobs there then in regular fullsize maps. The other issue is that the map itself isn't difficult, the bosses are, so how do you reward that appropriately? Put a huge chuck of XP behind the boss kill? Then people do rotations and abuse the hell of of it will culling strike or whatever.


IMO it shouldn't be so heavily loaded one way or another, the incentive to do t15 maps should be there as well, to do t14 maps, ect.


Poe is this messed up pyramid atm, where the risk doesn't equal rewards, where clearspeed is far more important then anything else. I know GGG said they didn't want to destroy the clearspeed meta, but this is far too different from the original principles of the game and when clearspeed in poe is faster then d3, one could argue poe is the more casual game then, seeing as that was not the intention of the design, one could argue it needs a massive change.

Make bosses give a 3/6% EXP on the bar even for level 99 characters. Adjust the difficulty of the fights proportionally. Give each player in a 6 man party, a set 10% of the amount - heck, it used a portal to get there, so even aurabots/culers receive some - and make the other 40% available via damage dealt and/or damage taken (to not die and use properly a Vaal Immortal Call to keep a party member alive should be encouraged by the EXP counter because it equals teamwork)...

Make every use of a portal before finishing the boss drop the final EXP gained by a set 16.6%, and you will still see the EXP bar move.

Adjust death EXP penalty that for the end game fights - Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri - it only drops you 0.5/1% per death solo, and up to triple values for party.

Then you would encourage those fights even for parties or >95 players, not only from a loot reward perspective, but also an EXP one...

What ? 3% xp on a guardian kill ? Oo
You are aware that some people are farming those even in HC ? And that doing that would just be ridiculous in term of xp compared to what we have now ?

No need for reducing the xp penalty during hard encounter, because that just removes the thrill of it even in Softcore, no thanks.

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Fruz wrote:

What ? 3% xp on a guardian kill ? Oo
You are aware that some people are farming those even in HC ? And that doing that would just be ridiculous in term of xp compared to what we have now ?

No need for reducing the xp penalty during hard encounter, because that just removes the thrill of it even in Softcore, no thanks.

Actually it would make more people chase the end game fights and not be all - "OMG I got to test them with 0% EXP on the bar because I am not prepared enough".

Those up to xx-xxx people that farm Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri should be rewarded from an EXP point of view for not abusing broken skills/mechanics/items or interactions, and with double dipping reworked and a tuning of the difficulty of the fight, I see no problem in rewarding a tank that lost 2 whole hours on a Shaper/Uber Atziri kill, instead of just encouraging pew-pew 1-xx million DPS that nukes the boss in less than 1 second...

As long as you still are penalised for dying, I don't see a problem with the game encouraging the honing of "skill" with well developed mechanical fights...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

As long as you still are penalised for dying, I don't see a problem with the game encouraging the honing of "skill" with well developed mechanical fights...

I'm not so much against it, but the values likely seem to high, you are suppose to grind in this sort of game and with the values being that high it makes it that much easier.

I also don't think that just because these fights are deemed more difficult that the penalty should be lower for death, to me that doesn't send the right message because:

1) this game is designed with hardcore in mind, not hold your hand while you do a harder boss fight
2) could encourage zerging or some other cheesy tactics, especially early on
3) encourages people to perhaps not invest as much into gear as what would be necessary to retain a large amount of XP during these encounters

90 is the new 100.

Bosses could give XP relative to their tier.

For example a tier 7 boss could give 7% XP for the first time you beat it, 6,5% the second time ans so on until it reaches the amount of XP it gives at the moment.

OR the tier 7 boss could simply give 7 times the XP of a rare monster at the same tier every time you beat it. Beating the boss would be like if you just beaten 7 rares.
The XP for seven rares in tier 7 is nothing as OP as my first suggestion. Yet it's significant enough to give an incentive for players to try beat the boss.

I've beaten every boss up to tier 11, every rare map boss up to tier 10. Well except the bog map boss.

That Skullbeak bone Rhoa is cheating I tell you!

Every time I tried to beat it even in a white map with no mods it killed me. I don't know if it's a bug or what but after I get him down to a half life, it goes mad and enters into a kind of "uber" mode where he constantly "teleport" slams me to the F-ing rock wall till I die from the attack and the poison degen. Even going behind covers doesn't help because in the "uber" mode he can noclip trough them with that "teleport" slam. I can beat his weaker version, the arid lake boss, the Drought-Maddened Rhoa, but this sucker is a brick wall. Good thing that I grow past his level and doesn't have do deal with his ass. Well unless I want to get that tier 3 Shaper's orb. Considering that I was able to get the tier 5 colonnade Shaper's orb it's sometimes maddening that getting tier 3 is way harder.

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goetzjam wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

As long as you still are penalised for dying, I don't see a problem with the game encouraging the honing of "skill" with well developed mechanical fights...

I'm not so much against it, but the values likely seem to high, you are suppose to grind in this sort of game and with the values being that high it makes it that much easier.

I also don't think that just because these fights are deemed more difficult that the penalty should be lower for death, to me that doesn't send the right message because:

1) this game is designed with hardcore in mind, not hold your hand while you do a harder boss fight
2) could encourage zerging or some other cheesy tactics, especially early on
3) encourages people to perhaps not invest as much into gear as what would be necessary to retain a large amount of XP during these encounters

If the fight got adjusted to be more unforgiving, but in a fair way, why not reward those that actually complete it? 3% per perfectly played fight, or 0.5% per portal might be a bit much, but to do it without abusing anything would presumably require higher than usual investments in build, skills, items and "skill play"...

What zerging encouragement when you got at most 6 chances/1 chance per person in a 6 player party at the same total amount during an encounter with very difficult content - where not talking story acts where you could overpower Malachai with hundreds of tries...

I strongly feel that would actually encourage persons to pursue the perfectly rolled uniques/mirror worthy rares to have the best chance to end flawlessly the fight - only connection related problems should count as a death possibility, and even for those there should be layers upon layers of defence...

And of course they could tune the values lower, as even 1.5% per fight at 99 would make the bar move so you would feel progression from an EXP point of view per won fight...

This mentioned above me by sofocle10000 could also work...