Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving - Forum

" Patrick_GGG wrote: Hey there, Please be careful not to breach the Code of Conduct while posting on the forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please refrain from personally attacking or antagonising other players. Well, it's hard to have adult conversations when you're heavily invested in a game like PoE, but it's seems harder these days to keep discussions civilised, as sooner than later everyone will start to antagonise or result to personal attacks, which is sad as the community that lurks here is deserving more serious discussions where the topics are supported with arguments and counter-arguments... Sadly the things never seem to change, so why don't the forum moderators take a more active stance against those that are not keeping things civilised... Posting here should be a privilege, and you should earn it or at least have something meaningfull to say every time you post a comment... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...	Posted by sofocle10000#6408 on Feb 18, 2017, 11:50:45 AM Quote this Post
" sofocle10000 wrote: You're not getting either the fact that having instant log out prevents better balance and a better experience to all... That you don't know, both have their pros and cons, having a game balanced around not having that possibility could totally be very good, but that's not the case here, and it does not seem at all to be what GGG wants. My point was : you cannot remove it without rebalancing the whole game at the same time, " sofocle10000 wrote: I thought that even if removing death EXP penalty, to show the players that the best way is to survive content is by paying attention to survivability too, and if you could finish the end game fights with zero ES CI - you can't go more glass cannon than that - you should have one, but only one chance to win against all odds => a Hardcore experience even without a death penalty is possible. Chaos should get reflect treatment just because it's wrong to rely on immunity to damage for certain enemies, and Volatiles or DD are not that dangerous for ranged/casters, heck make a cool DoT effect instead of reflect, but you shouldn't have Chaos damage as a way to bypass the damage penalty mechanic against the glass cannons, without a cost... I suggested alternatives ways too many times, and some might work, others might not, but if GGG tries to think outside the status quo and wants to start balancing the game, they might come in handy... You're also a nobody to say how the game SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be, but I prefer to listen and offer counter-arguments to your suggestions, you might do the same and try to see why there are people discontent that try to improve by feedback the game with solutions that would ultimately provide a better experience for all... I agree on volatile being unbalanced ( I guess everyone does, honestly ), but what does it have do to anything with chaos damage ? Chaos damage was never supposed to be like elemental damage in the first place, it has pros and cons too. Recently it got really buffed, and the double dipping will get addressed ( likely not in 2.6 though .. ). What feels weird imho with chaos atm, is that you can leech with it ( not speaking about ED and it's inherent mechanic ), and that is not helping the balance to me. GGG probably want to address double dipping to see how it goes, or maybe they have such related changes in the pipes, coming at the same moment, who knows ... Did I say what the game should and shouldn't be ? I don't think so ... I might have said should[...]imho, or with something like "probably","likely" or such (for good reasons), but I don't recall having used that very recently here tbh. And I told you why I didn't like your suggestions. " sofocle10000 wrote: Sadly the things never seem to change, so why don't the forum moderators take a more active stance against those that are not keeping things civilised... I guess that it would require a significant amount of time. And yeah, people getting emotional don't help keeping discussions civilized. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Feb 18, 2017, 11:55:35 AM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Feb 18, 2017, 11:54:04 AM Quote this Post
Spoiler " Fruz wrote: " sofocle10000 wrote: You're not getting either the fact that having instant log out prevents better balance and a better experience to all... That you don't know, both have their pros and cons, having a game balanced around not having that possibility could totally be very good, but that's not the case here, and it does not seem at all to be what GGG wants. My point was : you cannot remove it without rebalancing the whole game at the same time, " sofocle10000 wrote: I thought that even if removing death EXP penalty, to show the players that the best way is to survive content is by paying attention to survivability too, and if you could finish the end game fights with zero ES CI - you can't go more glass cannon than that - you should have one, but only one chance to win against all odds => a Hardcore experience even without a death penalty is possible. Chaos should get reflect treatment just because it's wrong to rely on immunity to damage for certain enemies, and Volatiles or DD are not that dangerous for ranged/casters, heck make a cool DoT effect instead of reflect, but you shouldn't have Chaos damage as a way to bypass the damage penalty mechanic against the glass cannons, without a cost... I suggested alternatives ways too many times, and some might work, others might not, but if GGG tries to think outside the status quo and wants to start balancing the game, they might come in handy... You're also a nobody to say how the game SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be, but I prefer to listen and offer counter-arguments to your suggestions, you might do the same and try to see why there are people discontent that try to improve by feedback the game with solutions that would ultimately provide a better experience for all... I agree on volatile being unbalanced ( I guess everyone does, honestly ), but what does it have do to anything with chaos damage ? Chaos damage was never supposed to be like elemental damage in the first place, it has pros and cons too. Recently it got really buffed, and the double dipping will get addressed ( likely not in 2.6 though .. ). What feels weird imho with chaos atm, is that you can leech with it ( not speaking about ED and it's inherent mechanic ), and that is not helping the balance to me. GGG probably want to address double dipping to see how it goes, or maybe they have such related changes in the pipes, coming at the same moment, who knows ... Did I say what the game should and shouldn't be ? I don't think so ... I might have said should[...]imho, or with something like "probably","likely" or such (for good reasons), but I don't recall having used that very recently here tbh. And I told you why I didn't like your suggestions. " sofocle10000 wrote: Sadly the things never seem to change, so why don't the forum moderators take a more active stance against those that are not keeping things civilised... I guess that it would require a significant amount of time. And yeah, people getting emotional don't help keeping discussions civilized. And I respect your points, but that doesn't make removing the death EXP penalty, or actually a rework to it so it preserves the same feeling of progression during the ride from 1-100, bad ideas. It just makes it different. I played way back Planescape Torment and it actually encouraged death at times, so having a Softcore immortal character that is penalised with a set 10% of it's current EXP without deleveling seems lackluster as they could innovate instead... And log out when the odds are against you instead of using Vaal Immortal Call is sad, and renders all semblance of "Hardcore" in this game null in my view... They have that option if they choose to do so, but I still hope that they might look at it if they want to improve on the full experience of leveling up to 100... And not having specific nodes to adjust elemental leech and chaos leech seems an oversight that further skews balance... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...	Posted by sofocle10000#6408 on Feb 18, 2017, 12:08:48 PM Quote this Post
Well, to be honest I really don't see the need for removing the death penalty at all. Back when I was playing DAoC, there aws this system where you could go back where you die and pray on your tomb to get some of the xp back but .... in Path of Exile, the player has so much power that it would be mostly pointless for example, you would go back there in no time and there would be close to no risk involved in getting part of the xp back, so that could not work well. There need to be a drawback for dying imho, and not one that still allows you to progress to level 100 by repeating it indefinitely, otherwise it will really remove some of the merit that people having reached level 100 in softcore have, and that would definitely not be a good thing. Instant log-out allows really thrilling situations in hardcore, it really does, spikes of adrenaline are real. There would still be adrenaline and spikes of it with a game balanced around no instant log-out, but it would be less I think. About chaos, the game would be better of without the possibility to leech from chaos, imho ( ED being a different story of course ). SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Feb 18, 2017, 12:18:53 PM Quote this Post
How much would base exp gain have to be nerfed in order to maintain the same actual penalty for dying? How could it be implemented? Make it come back after you gain 10% of a level in nerfed exp? How would you penalize dying multiple times? How would this be less unpleasant than just losing 10% if you mess up? The penalty (or lack of bonus) would have to persist longer than a map so you would have a miserable experience for a long time instead of just a quick loss of 10%.	Posted by DurianMcgregor#7045 on Feb 18, 2017, 12:20:45 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: " Crackmonster wrote: It remains that death penalty is not well implemented and causes thousands of ragequits Another completely baseless claim, and then you talk about others using fallacies ? please ..... If people ragequit, that means that they have a problem more than the game has a problem, like seriously. Stopped getting so emotional, it's just a game, and still a good one as long as GGG does not listen to all of those QQ threads in here (not that some aren't good, some have actual useful feedback). It's far from being baseless. You can see pages of players having "ragequit" the game in the ladders. Just check the numerous pages of players having 0 experience towards the next level. In order to have 0 experience towards the next level you need to have died then not killed any monster, then never come back to the character ever again. That is very clearly a ragequit, and those visible ragequits are only the tip of the iceberg, as many ragequits must have happened at other amounts of experience than 0%.	Posted by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
There is a world in between getting discouraged / bored and rage-quiting. And cf the part that you just quoted, the second sentence. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Feb 18, 2017, 1:21:05 PM Quote this Post
Didn't read the whole thread but just wanted to mention the way Sacred 2 did it. The more enemies you killed while staying alive increased your survival bonus which gave you higher magic find. I always thought it was a pretty good system.	Posted by Telzen#2427 on Feb 18, 2017, 1:26:36 PM Quote this Post
" Telzen wrote: Didn't read the whole thread but just wanted to mention the way Sacred 2 did it. The more enemies you killed while staying alive increased your survival bonus which gave you higher magic find. I always thought it was a pretty good system. And no experience loss on death ? So no matter how many times one would screw up, there would be progress anyway ? ( real question, I don't know that game ) SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Feb 18, 2017, 1:37:04 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: And no experience loss on death ? So no matter how many times one would screw up, there would be progress anyway ? ( real question, I don't know that game ) That's kind of the point of this kind of game. If you stop progressing, then the game loses its meaning. PS: Ragequit may not be the right term, but the current iteration of the penalty is clearly driving many players away.	Posted by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017, 1:46:44 PM