DX11 shadows a useless and annoying feature, why do you hate us GGG

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sidtherat wrote:

i have poe on 2 machines right now (they have identical HW except one having 16gb less memory) and one runs smoothly, second one crashes each time i cast ball lightning.. trying to fix that (because from gamers perspective it is the game crashing, no matter the real reason) is something i wouldnt like to do as a job.

Same operating systems and everything?

Wow, I do not envy them their job either. I can see why designing games for consoles is way, way easier. There are so many different hardware and software setups for computers going on out there... Even describing computer requirements as having a "minimum" threshold is rather deceptive considering how complicated things really are.

pretty much the same, some time ago i used to buy stuff in pairs when i knew im buing good stuff i would miss if it breaks. and these rigs are identical (minus hdd config and ram), use the same system (+/- win update magic that i might have clicked differently)

still. it is a perfectly realistic real-world scenario. there are people out there with win 7 or win vista installs dating previous decade. there are people that 'tweaked' their systems with various free tools that 'do magic stuff'. there are people who used both nv and amd cards on the same computer and kept all the drivers they have used.. etc etc

i do not know what kind of stuff poe sends when it crashes but even if it sends full stack trace it is very very difficult to track the system state from in-game.

it is a fascinating job that can bring lots of satisfaction but it isnt an easy one esp when there is a time pressure: it has to work on the 2nd or else it will be 5th launch in the row with serious first-day drama

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morbo wrote:

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stance.

More "special sauce" excuses from GGG. 'Everybody has to eat our unoptimized special sauce rain effects, because without rain, Youtube videos could look ugly'.

If people want to turn off effects, it means they value performance over graphics quality.

Hey bro, it's their game. If they want to make it into a shooter or platformer they can do that and if they want you to play it a very specific way they can enforce that too. Welcome to PoE.



That being said, last patch fixed some issues i had with dx11, so well done on that GGG. Now i am waiting for you to fix the Mario bug and you can have all my money.

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

GGG has literally called the DirectX 11 64bit client a beta product, POE v2.5 will incorporate the finalized version of the Dx11 graphics renderer so until then expect bugs and oddities eg: Ignoring the graphics settings, crashes, performance issues etc. should be expected while they work to finalize it.

When has GGG ever given new tech enough time to be tested? How many threads carpet the forums after shit like this gets released complaining that the game literally does not work anymore? How many times has GGG had to then hotfix multiple times over the following weeks to stabilize the Frankenstein they created?

GGG's entire beta testing process would appear to be as follows:

Can we run it in the office? Can the streamers run it? Fuck everyone else, it goes live.

Did you ever notice that when you run Client.exe the game opens the 32bit DirectX 9 version of the game? ie: You have to go out of your way to play the DirectX 11 x64 beta? ie: the beta is an opt-in and not opt-out situation? ie: You have to choose to use the DirectX 11 x64 client otherwise the game defaults to the DirectX 9 x86 client? ie: They didn't force people in to the beta test.

They did make changes to the DirectX 9 renderer as well, they expected those changes to work fine but it seems like they don't work quite right on all computer configurations. It is unclear if the crashes people experience are caused by the changes to the graphics renderer or something else in the case of the DirectX 9 renderer (Like the game may be failing to load an asset correctly due to changes to the asynchronous background loading mechanisms)

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Pyrokar wrote:

Hey bro, it's their game. If they want to make it into a shooter or platformer they can do that and if they want you to play it a very specific way they can enforce that too. Welcome to PoE.

You are confusing technical settings and gameplay mechanics. Shadows On/Off does not constitute a "different gameplay style".

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morbo wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Hey bro, it's their game. If they want to make it into a shooter or platformer they can do that and if they want you to play it a very specific way they can enforce that too. Welcome to PoE.

You are confusing technical settings and gameplay mechanics. Shadows On/Off does not constitute a "different gameplay style".

So you are arguing that "a very specific way to play" can't be a way of playing with shadows on?

c'mon, just leave will you?

you are bringing your personal taste problems and ruining legit discussion.

have a problem? create your own thread. stuff you do (insert your dislike for particular stuff EVERYWHERE) is rude, shameful and already beyond being simply boring.

This is way more drama than is justified. I agree with Pyrokar in that if they want to enforce enabled shadows on their OPT-IN BETA TEST, they are more than justified in doing so.

Got a problem with it? Then OPT OUT of the beta by going back to the dx9 client, and wait until the 1.0 release of the dx11 client.

THEN bitch. Because THEN your drama will be justified. Until then you are just farting in the wind.

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

When has GGG ever given new tech enough time to be tested? How many threads carpet the forums after shit like this gets released complaining that the game literally does not work anymore

very few, given the overal amount of people playing. too few.

but i do the same basically: if 2 out of 10 regular posters complain about errors i assume 20% of the player base are having problems because most players don't post in the forums.

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

GGG's entire beta testing process would appear to be as follows:

Can we run it in the office? Can the streamers run it? Fuck everyone else, it goes live.

yes it's basically like that. they got around a hundred office pc's where they test on different configurations.

what's the way you propose to improve on that and how should they finance it?

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This is way more drama than is justified. I agree with Pyrokar in that if they want to enforce enabled shadows on their OPT-IN BETA TEST, they are more than justified in doing so.

Got a problem with it? Then OPT OUT of the beta by going back to the dx9 client, and wait until the 1.0 release of the dx11 client.

THEN bitch. Because THEN your drama will be justified. Until then you are just farting in the wind.

Even though it is a good idea to enforce certain settings for testing purposes it should be made clear if there is an intent to keep those settings. A lot of people of my age and older propably still remember a lot of older games and have a different opinion about the purpose of graphics in a game. Shadows are purely esthetical and serve no real purpose in the game.

I started playing games when it often wasn't even really obvious what a certain object should be (although I was only 4 years old at that point and I wouldn't have understood anyway^^).

And if you pick up one of the good games from those times (there are plenty of terrible ones that's for sure), you notice that it doesn't really matter that graphics are a lot weaker than they are now, but at the same times these games also often had a lot more functional graphics than we have today. And shadows are part of that. Sometimes lighting and shadows are so intense that they make it hard to see what is actually going on and make it a lot easier to miss the important things you should react to. Exspecially PoE has this issue a lot that it starts to get so overloaded with things happening that you can not see the things that are important. Considering this shadows feel in the best case useless, because you hardly have time to pay attention to them and in the worst case they negatively affect you ability to play. I actually did put my settings to the absolut max once and wandered a bit around in normal just to look at things and the game does look rather nice that way... however I have hardly any time to look at it in regular play, because I like the gameplay a lot so I don't need awesome graphics to distract me from the terrible gameplay.