Breach: Completely Avoidable League Mechanics...

"

ZekromEX wrote:

Oh yeah make harder On people that makes perfect sense. This is why i hated Beyond, it's bullshit boss was entirely over powered no matter what you did. Why make something harder? it's already a triggered event why leave as is. You people make it impossible for new players to join a leauge because they can't seem to deal with it. This is exactly why i avoid Beyond mobs and maps, I rather not lose a full EXP bar to some bullshit boss that came out of nowhere and spawned on top of me.

Um...really dumb question from me here but... why not just play standard if you want to avoid the league mechanic? If you want it easier why play something called a "challenge" league when standard is available? Why wash down the challenge part of it?

"

ZekromEX wrote:

Oh yeah make harder On people that makes perfect sense. This is why i hated Beyond, it's bullshit boss was entirely over powered no matter what you did. Why make something harder? it's already a triggered event why leave as is. You people make it impossible for new players to join a leauge because they can't seem to deal with it. This is exactly why i avoid Beyond mobs and maps, I rather not lose a full EXP bar to some bullshit boss that came out of nowhere and spawned on top of me.

Pay attention if your build is going to die from stuff like that. None of these things just randomly happen to your character, there are specific mechanics involved.

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

"

ZekromEX wrote:

Oh yeah make harder On people that makes perfect sense. This is why i hated Beyond, it's bullshit boss was entirely over powered no matter what you did. Why make something harder? it's already a triggered event why leave as is. You people make it impossible for new players to join a leauge because they can't seem to deal with it. This is exactly why i avoid Beyond mobs and maps, I rather not lose a full EXP bar to some bullshit boss that came out of nowhere and spawned on top of me.

Pay attention if your build is going to die from stuff like that. None of these things just randomly happen to your character, there are specific mechanics involved.

That sounds great for people who play this game and understand the game mechanics. How about people who's never played the game before? They just die?

Do remember that if something is somewhat difficult for veterans, it is impossible for new players.

This is one of the times where it would be great if there was a HC/SC split for league, even if it is minor.

You play HC, Breach mechanics have a HUGE trigger range, like 2 screens away. And if you play SC, trigger range is small, less than half a screen away.

it is a far deeper problem

right now im deliberating 'should i play it'

pros:
- new broken uniques (because lets be honest, these are there by design)
- .. nothing i guess? the mechanic and league structure is a rehash

cons:
- have to start over
- have to level masters
- have to slog trough the atlas
- have to 'enjoy' the trade
- have to use meta (or meta-ish at least) build to build up wealth to play something interesting. however! a) ive played several builds and new and interesting is quite rare (EA build is the only major build i havent done yet) b) power difference between builds is so gross that even i wont waste my time with stuff when other stuff is 10 times stronger


in short: league mechanics are 'oh, more mobs. kill them, get keys/shards/fragments to get to big boss'. same stuff we've done before and several times. if the main bosses are talisman-rare then it will flop.

there is nothing stopping players to just trigger this zone and not stop running.. essences were local and gave immediate rewards, breaches seem to be more 'dimensional' and as such migh affect the 'mighty clear speed' balance. why play it if skipping it gives more xp/hr? :)

I have not played earlier leagues but even if they are avoidable now, it's pointless not to engange because of the challenges you need to complete. Everyone can't be satisfied too so anyone not liking it is free to ignore it or do so for more practical reasons like preventing xp loss. I did play long enough to know that the game tries to keep things interesting every 3 months and with it comes choice to play along with it or not, it cant be more convenient for everyones personal taste.

Not everyone likes to play OP builds too so to identify facerolling content with temp leagues isn't true at least for players like me.

"

sidtherat wrote:

cons:
- have to start over
- have to level masters
- have to slog trough the atlas
- have to 'enjoy' the trade
- have to use meta (or meta-ish at least) build to build up wealth to play something interesting. however! a) ive played several builds and new and interesting is quite rare (EA build is the only major build i havent done yet) b) power difference between builds is so gross that even i wont waste my time with stuff when other stuff is 10 times stronger

Truth be told, masters seem better now. That thingy they added that master teleports to you after finishing the mission makes a real difference.

Challenge league lives or dies based on it's feature. Breach doesn't seem particularly fun or interesting, but it's impossible to judge without actually playing it. Darkshrines didn't seem interesting either when they announced it, turned out to be best league GGG ever did. League-feature that is completely optional is only good if it's absolutely fucking insane, like Darkshrines. You have to give people a reason to engage in it.

darkshrine was a bribe league

it gave sooo much stuff for free that it wasnt even funny. piles of rares everywhere are one thing. targeted (very precise) farming is another.

anyone liking free stuff abused darkshrines like crazy because it was just that: abuse vechicle with pretty much no cost of entry

and yes. league should live or die based on the mechanic but currently (due to catering to insatible masses filled with greed) it lives or dies based on the reward. mechanics noone cares about. it is the loot/xp/orbs that matter

greed is good. well.. it isnt.


it is a cery strong feedback loop. more rewards handed like candy? more demand for such rewards. it is a cycle with no happy end because at the end of it we have.. a demo version of a game that plays itself (we have parts of it in the game already in the form of unkillable builds)

what are the Breach mechanics anyway? 'some mobs' appear you kill them without even looking at them. you collect orbs and 6s. then tou buy keys from peons that waste their time collecting them for you. then you facerol a boss without even understanding how it works because CI plus VP is so balanced

is that engaging?

"

sidtherat wrote:

it is a cery strong feedback loop. more rewards handed like candy? more demand for such rewards. it is a cycle with no happy end because at the end of it we have.. a demo version of a game that plays itself (we have parts of it in the game already in the form of unkillable builds)

what are the Breach mechanics anyway? 'some mobs' appear you kill them without even looking at them. you collect orbs and 6s. then tou buy keys from peons that waste their time collecting them for you. then you facerol a boss without even understanding how it works because CI plus VP is so balanced

is that engaging?

A considerable number of players think that rushing from one pack to another by way of movements-kills, and spam-click-looting is engaging, believe it or not.

The very same people don't like games that are challenging, all they want is the loot. They overvalue the feeling that is "being given something for free", and they undervalue the feeling that is "earning something and appreciating it for having been earned".

As long as this game exclusively rewards "time spent", and does not reward "player-skills developed" it will attract the kind of player that prefers "fast-food". GGG invites them by way of poor balance and shallow gamedesign. Many players consider facerolling content "work", which is an idiotic stance to have, when the game only expects you to be present, rather than actually playing skillfully.

The greed is way out of proportions. If people want content to faceroll, they should be forced to running lower tier maps at a fast pace. Higher tier content needs to be difficult. Facerolling and end-game need to become mutually exclusive.

"

sidtherat wrote:

anyone liking free stuff abused darkshrines like crazy because it was just that: abuse vechicle with pretty much no cost of entry

and yes. league should live or die based on the mechanic but currently (due to catering to insatible masses filled with greed) it lives or dies based on the reward. mechanics noone cares about. it is the loot/xp/orbs that matter

Exactly, that's what it takes to make league really worth it. Average non-broken league is basically dead after 10 days.

Loot is irrelevant in the game that allows efficient trading. Poe.trade is where you loot. Until we get a SSF league/race like the Garena SSF+150%MF+Perandus, nothing can change there.

"

Sure_K4y wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

it is a cery strong feedback loop. more rewards handed like candy? more demand for such rewards. it is a cycle with no happy end because at the end of it we have.. a demo version of a game that plays itself (we have parts of it in the game already in the form of unkillable builds)

what are the Breach mechanics anyway? 'some mobs' appear you kill them without even looking at them. you collect orbs and 6s. then tou buy keys from peons that waste their time collecting them for you. then you facerol a boss without even understanding how it works because CI plus VP is so balanced

is that engaging?

A considerable number of players think that rushing from one pack to another by way of movements-kills, and spam-click-looting is engaging, believe it or not.

The very same people don't like games that are challenging, all they want is the loot. They overvalue the feeling that is "being given something for free", and they undervalue the feeling that is "earning something and appreciating it for having been earned".

As long as this game exclusively rewards "time spent", and does not reward "player-skills developed" it will attract the kind of player that prefers "fast-food". GGG invites them by way of poor balance and shallow gamedesign. Many players consider facerolling content "work", which is an idiotic stance to have, when the game only expects you to be present, rather than actually playing skillfully.

The greed is way out of proportions. If people want content to faceroll, they should be forced to running lower tier maps at a fast pace. Higher tier content needs to be difficult. Facerolling and end-game need to become mutually exclusive.

higher tier content needs to be more rewarding in exchange for it's difficulty as well, as I'm sure folks truly enjoy the whole "run seven hundred gorges (or your shaped map of choice) because inflated challenge/less monsters in higher maps make it literally not worth the time you're investing vs the chance of death" thing for higher levels since that's not the case at present. EDIT: unfortunately making said challenging content more rewarding will only push people more towards builds which trivialize said challenge, allowing them to faceroll it

also, who needs skill when you can press a single (or gasp, maybe TWO buttons) button to kill everything on the screen, all the way up to T16 maps?