Izaro needs an overhaul. Or does the game?
Previously...
The four Izaro fights became easier as you progressed and the final version, Uber Izaro, actually became more tricky. I generally would do Normal Izaro when I gained access to Cruel Izaro due to the basic access of certain mechanics. The main reason being traps. A few builds, like for the Berserker, I would complete any lab as soon as possible to get War Bringer to enhance warcries.
Normal Izaro was the hardest because of the lack of access to gems, items, and the fact that traps cannot effectively be mitigated. Flasks are your only real option to bypass them, barring character control. Cruel Izaro became easier as you gained access to stuff. Real easy to over level and come in later, without even trying to do so. Merciless Izaro became even easier because more things were unlocked. It is tricky for many builds, but many more can do this without any significant issue(s). Uber Izaro was more of a numbers thing. Merciless with higher enemy health, damage, and speed. Nothing too serious. A few builds cannot do it, some have trouble, a few can cakewalk it. All of these were done with 5.5-6.5k life with some 3-7 endurance charges, Arctic Armor, Emberwake-Taming Firestorm with Cybil's Paw. Quite a bit of damage and thereby leech.
Now...
I don't do any lab until I am vastly overleveled. Only exceptions are when certain unlocks are required as soon as possible, like the first two labs for a quad-totem Hierophant, War Bringer for Berserker, Mistress of Sacrifice for Necromancer, etc.
All versions of Izaro simply deal too much damage according to the level. Nothing compares. At 6.4k life, 5 endurance charges, no AA, and only about 9k tooltip, it is simply impossible. Izaro's basic attack-meaning that there are no augmentations to him or detrimental effects on me (darkshrine, fonts, essences, idols, etc)-he is dealing a huge chunk of life. I'm guessing he hits for around 3-3.5k with a basic attack. His slam one-shots me, with 5 e-charges standing. So what are the options for mitigation. Lightning Coil, Taste of Hate, armor equipment, using Arctic Armor, more endurance charges, and that about sums it up. Lightning Coil, Arctic Armor, and armor equipment are highly specific and cannot be simply plugged into any build. Lightning Coil is a specific chest piece. Arctic Armor is a reservation that works only while stationary. Armor equipment requires investment to begin paying off, and even then it is less effective against Izaro than other options AND is more specific than every other option. Taste of Hate and endurance charges are much easier to plug into a build, but are not easy per se. Taste of Hate is a very nice option but it is limited by being a flask; it uses charges and cannot be used if you cannot maintain charges (killing too many enemies too quickly to "save" them as refillers, or if you don't get more enemies spawned in when you need them). Endurance charges are very nice against Izaro because it offers flat mitigation, but they are limited by passive availability and unique or corrupted gear. Barring mitigation, the only option to survive Izaro himself is player control and character mobility. Character mobility is going to be good given proper planning. Seven-league step, Whirling Blades or Shield Charge with Faster Attacks, Flame Dash with Faster Casting, and in extreme scenarios you can use Enhance if it helps the mobility skill. However, this still doesn't change the fact that Izaro is doing well over 6.4k in a special hit without it being a crit. I have attempted and tested his attacks, again unaltered, by specifically staying in their range. Each and every time I have died outright to a single hit. No enemies around, no fonts, no idols, no curses, nothing. No charges, no generals, no portals. Absolutely nothing that could possibly affect him or myself. Each and every test I stand, he slams (or slashes), I die. Don't misunderstand. I'm not complaining about my death. What I have an issue with is this: Izaro is no longer something you are meant to defeat. It is meant to show you either: A) your character is "weak" and you must kite him until you can wear him down. B) Your build is so weak you simply die. C) You stomp Izaro because of high mitigation, high DPS, or a mixture of the two. Izaro is simply a numbers game. No more, no less. If you have the numbers, you do it without a care. Most of the variables in the Lab don't really do anything, like the Generals. Some of them, like the fonts and Idols, can affect certain builds adversely. Though the fonts can be ignored with a curse-immune flask, though I don't remember if they would negate them. If you don't have the numbers, you simply don't do Izaro. Really disappointing that GGG simply upped his damage numbers rather than add more mechanics. I would rather the entire room have traps, each and every kind, for all three stages rather than Izaro simply be another map boss that kills you easily.
The Suggestion...
Just like with most of what you've done GGG, stop nerfing and modifying numbers. Start introducing and changing mechanics. Max block Acrobatics builds you nerfed because players were spending pennies to stomp what you wanted to be difficult content and earn thousands of dollars. Almost no effort and lackluster gear beating high level content. Rather than introduce secondary damage, which bypassed all of that and would completely wreck block and dodge, you nerf it to where the combination does not work. While understandable that you don't want your efforts be trampled on with minimal effort, you made the wrong choice. Shotgunning was also nerfed wrongly. Originally, LMP and GMP were must-haves in all but specific builds. GMP meant you did about, if my memory serves me, 2.5 times more damage if all projectiles hit the target. This is from a single support gem. 250% of base damage. This is considering its less damage penalty and all five projectiles hitting. Almost always all five hit. This was especially broken when it came to Incinerate's originally lower base damage and higher multiplier. However, another issue was that monsters having more projectiles were more lethal to melee characters, to the point that any projectile-based pack of enemies was far more threatening than any non-projectile pack of enemies regardless of the type of enemy or the damage they dealt. Projectile enemies simply did many times more damage up front. You simply prevented more than one projectile from affecting a target initially. Yet this is still bypassed by having an enemy up against an obstacle or wall and having the same projectiles either bounce off or detonate on said obstacle. Rather than preventing shotgunning, you should have implemented something that would prevent LMP/GMP from being "best in slot" or "must-have" support gems. More work than changing an enemy from doing an attack to some secondary damage, you could have added support gems that offered different mechanics or increased the damage penalty on the supports that enabled shotgunning. Chaos Inoculation basically means that a player cannot play PvP using mainly or exclusively chaos damage. If they do, they are losing a match without knowing it. Chaos damage does not PvP. Physical damage also doesn't have a place, due to Immortal Call alone. To a lesser extent, Lightning Coil, Taste of Hate, and Basalt flasks make physical ineffective in PvP. While physical damage cannot literally not PvP, it is less effective overall in comparison with elemental damage. Penetration supports. Yet we cannot have a max block build with Acrobatics that can stomp other players in PvP, yet lose to a stray hit or string of hits or be stomped on by secondary damage. GGG, spend more time on mechanics and less time on numbers. Please. Last bumped on Nov 10, 2016, 2:51:43 PM
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first - what izaro damage buff you are talking about here? you let him eat the essences today and got wrecked or something?
i FARM him on good layout days with a 4.8k MOLTEN STRIKER (as melee as melee gets) with mediocre stats. i can facetank argus and izaro (uber version ofc). unless i let him eat essences as that means ~100% more damage as element. it is DEADLY for non-sponge builds. know your opponent. it makes stuff easier as for the suggestion. you start with false premise (acro+block does not work anymore - it is false. it works. but it is just harder to reach max/max status, still really easy with flasks et al. just not that easy - whats wrong with that?) and go down from there. |
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Only issue with Izaro are the days with charges since they're absolute bullshit with no clear way to handle them. Argus is considerably more overtuned.
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" Good job not reading the OP. I'll wait until you do so: " I'm talking about his base damage buff, not mechanics in-game. |
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ive read it. saw no proof and done conclusions on my own
ive farmed him as usual using the same character as usual and done the same stuff regarding buffs as usual there are two options - a) you are singled out by ggg and face izaro stronger than rest of the population b) youve left one of is buffs if there are other options please list them. with evidence if possible |
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Not sure my RF-Totem build has nearly 5k HP still wears tabula and doesn't die to any of his attacks. He has about 10k Armor still, but no Charges or anything.
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" The keywords here are "RF" and "Totem" - if you have a proxy dealing damage FOR you (totems, raging spirits, etc.) then Izaro is fucking ezmodo. If you have a build like RF which rewards focusing on mobility (what exactly are you targeting? RF passively does damage for you) you can focus on dodging Izaro's 1-2HKOs. My builds struggle with Izaro's goddess meteor shower mostly. He is fine if I temp chains + enfeeble him, except the goddess meteor shower attack literally instagibs any character I play that isn't highly optimized to fight him. The scepters (curse) encounter is also needlessly punishing to melee characters. I think GGG will tune Izaro because he probably has too high a mortality rate. I hope they don't tune him too bad. I hope they make him more dangerous while reducing his one-shot potential. OP, if you're doing a life build, I think dual curse is mandatory to fight him. You can't hope to mitigate his damage without expensive or specific builds or by following the meta closely (pathfinder). If you stack dual curse with something like Vortex (chill) he is more manageable (goddess attack is still super deadly though). My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282 Last edited by anubite#0701 on Nov 10, 2016, 8:25:51 AM
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oh please.. he is perfectly doable with non meta life builds. do not make him scarier than he really is.
goddes barrage is dangerous but can be avoided. his slash is telgraphed and it is impossible to miss it. his slam has a huge windup same as the leap. it all can be manually dodged even without movement skills (skills that there is zero reasons not to use btw). bring right flasks. learn his mechanics. do not panic. and it should be allright. ofc farming him with all buffs and killing him for points are two different beasts. uber izaro with essences and gargoyles is scary. all my characters (even as obscure as selfcast cold snapper with 4.4 life 2k es managed him on first or second try. when you see during a fight he is not going down just leave and analyze whay is wrong with your character uber izaro is one of the best designed bosses in the entire game (maybe charges are too strong as they give both speed and damage reduction prolonging the fight) and i never felt that my character will not do it. and i have 30? 40? high lvl chars.. |
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Barrage cannot be avoided if you are t chains by a scepter and are attacking it. Biggest cause of death for me.
My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
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flask of warding makes these fonts an empty run. use a flask with many charges (stibnite) and laugh at curses. ring with reduced curses effect on you is also good if you can manage resists (thiefs torment and i thin lk there is another one).
the scarriest mechanic are easily charges and essences. idols generals fonts and portals are free keys.. even on my ultra hipster builds |
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