Lab is so bad, please kill me.

On a more serious note: What do you think is going to happen when act 5 is out, and one difficulty level gets wiped?

2 labs giving 3 points each, and uber lab giving the last 2? I'd actually like that a lot. Let alone that it would be nice for those who like to play as a scion.

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Well, gizzle uses PoE as an irl job replacement activity. He's also stated that his 'job' in life is running 'noobs' through the lab and making a killing doing so. He's also posted that it gives him great joy to find other people not liking what the lab has done to their favorite video game.

So his views are purely selfish ones.

I'm happy for Jgizile that he likes labyrinth and that he makes a tidy sum running noobs through the labyrinth. I agree that he seems rather selfish and unkind sometimes, though. To try to ease his fears once again, my guess is that GGG will gate ascendancy points behind other content in the future and that content will have a tough boss I'm sure. He will probably be able to carry people through that content. Plus the labyrinth would still be there when he wants to play that content. So then everyone can be happy although Jgizile may receive a little less joy in the suffering of others.

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Turtledove wrote:

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morbo wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

edit: Although I suspect (as I have mentioned a number of times) that GGG has decided that the best solution is to divorce the ascendancy from the labyrinth completely and move it under new content that is under development.

What basis do you have to suspect that?

It is subjective and there's no claim being made that it is anywhere near conclusive. In approximate order of more to less convincing points.
1. GGG has previously stated that Ascendancy Points and Labyrinth were two separate concepts that were combined for the Ascendancy release.
2. There seems to be a significant portion of the player base and potential ARPG player base that dislikes the game play in labyrinth.
3. It seems to be consistent with what has been reported from two different conversations that people have had with GGG on the matter. Although it would be inaccurate to claim that this was explicitly stated or even that the idea came across from either of those discussions.
4. From a high level design perspective it seems to me to be the cleanest and best design for the long run.

1. Which has nothing to do with anything, they had the ideas separatly, and married them together to produce what it is now, it has absolutely no implicit meaning that they want to separate the two concept, at all.
Both have been developped together, that's all there is to it.

2. "Significant" ? Don't make me laugh.
I am ready to bet that there are more people that dislike Malachai than people that dislike the lab for example.
The lab is a more stressful place than most other areas in the game, by design, so many people will prefer an easier not stressfull way of getting the points no doubt. But hate it like you guys ? nah ... more people hating malachai, definitely.

3. Source ?

4. Funnily enough, I have the exact opposite opinion.

Tldr : The ascendnacy points are tied to the lab [Removed by Support]

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Fruz wrote:

2. "Significant" ? Don't make me laugh.
I am ready to bet that there are more people that dislike Malachai than people that dislike the lab for example.
The lab is a more stressful place than most other areas in the game, by design, so many people will prefer an easier not stressfull way of getting the points no doubt. But hate it like you guys ? nah ... more people hating malachai, definitely.

Hmm... I'm not sure about this.

Speaking for myself, I'd rather kill 10 Malachais than running one lab. And I'm not too fond of either of those, to be perfectly honest.

The lab just hits the same spot as the progression up to mapping does, for me that is. You run it 4 times total, if you want all the points, and that just makes it tedious. In fact, since the introduction of the lab, I am way more hesitant to play additional builds during leagues than I was before, because it's an additional chore on top of doing 3 loops, and dried lake + low-tier mapping. Sure, I have twink-gear and whatnot, but it still feels like an annoying chore that is necessary to experience the full potential of the build I so chose to play. And I believe it's fair to say that this isn't a good thing. 4 labs total is too much in my opinion. having two labs giving 3 points each, and uber lab giving the last 2 would be so much better, I think.

Yes, it's a grind oriented game, I get that. I knew what I signed up for when I made my first account during open beta, but eventhough I'm aware of this, and believe me I grind quite a bit, the lab just annoys me.

I hate to wait for things to happen. Waiting for trap cycles most noteably. Red traffic lights annoy me IRL already when there's nobody else on the streets, and that applies to those cycles in the lab as well.

I was hopping for only 2 difficulties plus map for 2.4.0 ( even for 2.0 tbh ), when it will happens it will be very nice indeed.
Reaaaally hope that it's for the next expansion, we have some time still but ...



The main difference with Malachai is that you have to go through Malachai to reach cruel, and then Merc.

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Fruz wrote:

I was hopping for only 2 difficulties plus map for 2.4.0 ( even for 2.0 tbh ), when it will happens it will be very nice indeed.
Reaaaally hope that it's for the next expansion, we have some time still but ...

This... It's off-topic, but I really think the introduction of act 4 was a missed opportunity. Had they removed one loop at that point, we would have gone from 9 acts down to 8, prior to mapping. I can't think of any other reason than lack of time/resources as to why this didn't happen. It would have been so awesome...

Actually it's in the development manifesto already, one loop gets cut when act 5 gets introduced. Have a look:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1743790/page/1

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Fruz wrote:

The main difference with Malachai is that you have to go through Malachai to reach cruel, and then Merc.

Yeah, I can see why people would like to hate this, but really though, 10 more minutes in dried lake and he is a pushover in most cases. This is just a matter of people bum-rushing him kamikaze-style, instead of preparing themselves properly.

Well that will be one less lab to run, so it is not completely off topic.

Didn't know about that, thanks for sharing the link.
We'll see if people still expecting ascendancy points to be removed from the lab ( like in 3.0.0 ) will take it better then lol.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I was hopping for only 2 difficulties plus map for 2.4.0 ( even for 2.0 tbh ), when it will happens it will be very nice indeed.
Reaaaally hope that it's for the next expansion, we have some time still but ...

This... It's off-topic, but I really think the introduction of act 4 was a missed opportunity. Had they removed one loop at that point, we would have gone from 9 acts down to 8, prior to mapping. I can't think of any other reason than lack of time/resources as to why this didn't happen. It would have been so awesome...

Actually it's in the development manifesto already, one loop gets cut when act 5 gets introduced. Have a look:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1743790/page/1

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Fruz wrote:

The main difference with Malachai is that you have to go through Malachai to reach cruel, and then Merc.

Yeah, I can see why people would like to hate this, but really though, 10 more minutes in dried lake and he is a pushover in most cases. This is just a matter of people bum-rushing him kamikaze-style, instead of preparing themselves properly.

funnily enough the bumrushing vs preparation is one of major reasons people do not like the lab. it is a content that punishes rushing (rusing is not the same as prepared speed running!). dying to simple mistakes in traps or from inadequate character vs izaro is just that. not taking content seriously, getting slapped, getting angry.

there are other reasons but this one seems in my opinion one of the most important. other one is players 'know' that they are good and the game asks them to prove it. they try and they die. it has to hurt. it applies mostly to God of Offscreen bow players..

anyway. 2 loops mean 3 labs and im ok with that. wouldnt mind uber lab being available without the offering tho. it hurts to buy them because trials are so damn rare

Guys, we don't think that the lab is hard or anything but boring.

A lot of people think that when we say boring or that we hate the lab it's cause we can't do. That's not the point, we can do it, but we don't like it.

There's nothing especial or entertaining about it. Look to the ground -> move -> look to the ground -> move -> room -> look to the ground -> move -> look to the ground -> move -> another room -> fight the boss -> start all over again.

Plus the trials, ffs. I wasn't even planning to play essence at all cause of this sht, but I started yesterday and honestly. They made a damn challenge to asc. -_-'

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Turtledove wrote:

1. GGG has previously stated that Ascendancy Points and Labyrinth were two separate concepts that were combined for the Ascendancy release.

Do you have a source for this?

Even if you don't, think about it: what took longer to create, the Lab (tilesets, Izaro fight, trap mechanics, design & test all the gauntlets, etc...) or Ascendancy classes? If the Lab wasn't meant for Ascendancy, what were they spending all those months creating & balancing it for?

Your other three points are just speculation & personal bias. So it's hard to imagine that GGG is ready to remove Asc points from the Lab and put them "under new content that is in development".

Esp. since there is zero info about this coming from GGG. If your assumptions that the Lab is destroying the game were true and GGG was working on an alternative, I'd suspect they would be generous with new info and assurances to not loose too much playerbase in the process. We'd be reading a manifesto post by now.