Questions about Chaos & Poison Confusion
" I agree with this line of thought. The facts are first and foremost. (But thanks for sticking up for me, 1453R!) Ludvator brings up the good point that there are not usually derived DoTs coming from ED, Contagion, and Vortex. Actually, I shouldn't have included Contagion because it never Hits as far as I know, so it can never double dip. ED poison and Vortex ignite are probably the most viable / relevant examples, though Poison Vortex is also possible with Pyre Sapphire Ring and at least one Consuming Dark. Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/
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" Orb of Storms is pretty damn awesome for (edit: Pyre) EE Vortex. Drop OoS and you get the boosted Fire damage on the initial hit as well as the follow-up cold DoT, which means even bigger Ignites. If you keep your Vortex cast rate lower(0.51s cast time or higher) and avoid any flat fire and flat cold spell damage on your gear, OoS' pulsing Lightning means you'll always hit favorable EE stats on enemies. Focus on bigger, slower Vortexes and use Orb of Storms to proc Elemental Overload and also do Curse on Hit, and you can end up with some very, very nice whacks. Did that up to 85 at the start of Prophecy league (y'know, back when Conflux was useful :P), and it had plenty more gas in the tank by the time I drifted off of it onto other characters. Last edited by 1453R on Sep 27, 2016, 2:54:26 PM
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Wow, what a great set of responses, fascinating. Now I'm just trying to sort it all out and determine how I should proceed with my build. Blade Vortex was just an example because I thought it was a cool skill that might have some good synergies with the ED-Contagion I've been running on my Shadow.
My wife duos with me all the time and she's using Caustic Arrow and Contagion for her Ranger, which is why I've been trying to find synergies between using Poison and Chaos damage delivery simultaneously (which reminds me, does Contagion from 2 separate players stack)? One question that has not been explicitly answered in this thread (unless maybe I missed it) is: does Chaos damage = Poison damage? Do modifiers to one apply to the other? Are both affected by "Damage over time" nodes, "Poison" nodes and "Chaos Damage" nodes? I still am not sure about this. We are just entered Act 4 Normal and are feeling our power and making long term choices that will affect what supports and 4-5-6L's we configure, so any clarification at this point would be very much appreciated. Thanks for a fascinating discussion and all the insights. That's why I love this game, the complexity and the community. Man does not stop playing because he grows old. He grows old because he stops playing. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Last edited by Winterfury on Sep 27, 2016, 6:06:59 PM
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Poison Damage is a phrase used to describe a specific form of Chaos Damage over Time, namely that of the Poison debuff. As such, all Poison damage is inherently Chaos damage.
Any other type of Chaos Damage and Chaos DoT is not Poison Damage, however. Debuffs of the same type do not stack unless explicitly stated otherwise - Poison and Wither do stack (Wither would be really good btw), but Contagion does not. | |
" As Viper said: all Poison damage is Chaos damage, but not all Chaos damage is Poison damage. As for running duos with a Caustic Arrow ranger and an ED/Contagion Shadow...do you both run Wither? Caustic Arrow and Essence Drain both are fire-and-forget spells that don't really care about attacks-per-second, but Wither stacks with itself and amplifies both damage sources. A Wither > Inc. Duration > Faster Casting set-up on both of your characters, which you both use simultaneously on evil things, would produce a very awesomely unhealthy stack of Wither Chaos-damage debuff quite quickly and allow each of you to boost both of your damage at once. Heh, if you really want to double down on it, have each of you bring a Wither Totem and a self-cast Wither set-up. Four sources of Wither debuff going at once means oh-my-billy-Jeebus levels of chaos debuffery, though that's a pretty intensive gem link load for some builds. Last edited by 1453R on Sep 27, 2016, 7:05:50 PM
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" Wither caps at 20 stacks. With a pretty potent TC (58% Curse Effect) plus one Duration cluster, my Wither + Totem + Faster Casting + Radius setup caps out real easy. I'd say one Wither totem and one Decoy totem would serve much better :) Maybe a Wither hardcaster on top of that? | |
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Ah, damn. Didn't know Wither capped out. Shoulda guessed, though. A'ight, my bad. Heh, still say a really bitchin' Wither set-up is a veritable requirement with that particular skill combo, though.
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Ah, so only one of us needs to run Contagion, we're just overwriting each other's Contagion casts every time. But both of us should be running Wither. Great to know.
Thanks for the clarification on the differences between Chaos and Poison. So all Poison is Chaos over time, but unless otherwise specified, Chaos is not poison. If I understand this correctly, then Poison will be affected by all nodes that affect Poison or Chaos, but chaos damage will not be affected by nodes that address poison specifically. Is it also true that both Poison and Chaos damage will be affected by any nodes that affect Damage over Time effects? Thanks guys Man does not stop playing because he grows old. He grows old because he stops playing. - Oliver Wendell Holmes
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" Close, but no cigar. There exist cases where you only deal Chaos Damage in a Hit, and not as Damage over Time. The best example of this is any Attack or Spell that ordinarily Hits linked with the Added Chaos Damage Support gem. For example, Heavy Strike + Added Chaos Damage with no other stats will not be affected by Damage over Time bonuses. You might think of going from general to more specific: (Generic) Chaos Chaos Damage over Time Chaos Damage over Time of the Poison variety Bonuses to higher types will affect lower types, but lower types won't affect higher types. Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/
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Ah, so Chaos Damage is not inherently a DoT debuff, it can be a single burst damage type.
I think I have a better understanding now. Many thanks for the clarifications. Man does not stop playing because he grows old. He grows old because he stops playing. - Oliver Wendell Holmes
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