We need reliable melee character, new life based system !

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Pyrokar wrote:

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Perq wrote:

Meanwhile, I'm face-tanking Uber Izaro with 3 curses on my face, while having only 6,6k hp, armor and some endu charges. Not saying that this is comparable to ES (which should clearly be dealt with), but armor isn't as useless as some people claim. :v

It is. Face some elemental damage or chaos damage and you are toast. Also, not sure how much armor you have, but if you have a lot, all you can do is Uber izaro or just the physical damage bosses, if you have too little even Uber izaro will kill you with 6,6k life in that scenario you mention. All it takes is a wave slash. Getting more HP is always better than getting more armor.

But again, you play softcore, no need to think things through there. Do whatever and if you die a few times, who cares? Just respawn in the nearest checkpoint.

Some. Builds have their weaknesses, and they have their strengths. I've seen people getting fucked in Phoenix/Chimera fights, on their 15k ES pools, while I was having a chill with 0 damage Chimera cloud slashes, and a quite clear first run on the Phoenix. Btw. you can gear chaos resist - stop running around with -60%, its embarrassing, and your hardcore elitist status might get damaged by that. :V

Of course it is isn't always better to get hp than armor. eHP for physical damage is both affected by armor and hp (and endu charges, for that matter). The more %increased hp you get, the less each another affects you. Also, if it is also better to get more hp, why are you wearing Ming's Heart that reduces your hp?!.

You are arguing that ignoring attack/cast speed and adding only %Increased Damage will always be better for DPS.

Also, the hardcore elitist salt. Ah! Tell me all about being hardcore, yet QQing about game being too hard (Lab).

so many years... you guys still have hope ggg il make playable life-melee?

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Perq wrote:

Meanwhile, I'm face-tanking Uber Izaro with 3 curses on my face, while having only 6,6k hp, armor and some endu charges. Not saying that this is comparable to ES (which should clearly be dealt with), but armor isn't as useless as some people claim. :v

The problem is, you can tank him only because his main damage type is Physical.

Wait a day when he will have Conduits+Essences, and try facetank that! He will deal insane elemental damage oneshots, and your armour wont be worth a shit!

Not all bosses in the game deal physical damage only. Many of them deal large amount of elemental damage (Atziri, for example). Against those bosses, your armour and endurance wont help at all, and you'll be far behid ES build, who is protected against any damage.

Armour needs additional utility or just a general life buff.

Stuff like + 1 max resistances each 8k armour you have come into my mind but it surely doesn't need to be that simple.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Perq wrote:

Meanwhile, I'm face-tanking Uber Izaro with 3 curses on my face, while having only 6,6k hp, armor and some endu charges. Not saying that this is comparable to ES (which should clearly be dealt with), but armor isn't as useless as some people claim. :v

The problem is, you can tank him only because his main damage type is Physical.

Wait a day when he will have Conduits+Essences, and try facetank that! He will deal insane elemental damage oneshots, and your armour wont be worth a shit!

Not all bosses in the game deal physical damage only. Many of them deal large amount of elemental damage (Atziri, for example). Against those bosses, your armour and endurance wont help at all, and you'll be far behid ES build, who is protected against any damage.

Did, deals far more damage (obviously), but still tank-able. At least conduit alone. :P
Well, I think in this three-way Armor/Life,ES, Evasion, the most screwed one is Evasion. Still. Because, Armor/Endu charges have way better time when dealing with physical-heavy enemies (Chimera, Izaro, Argus are ones I had least difficulty dealing with), ES is far better in Elemental/Chaos heavy one-shots and Evasion... well, it doesn't ALWAYS get one-shot... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not arguing that armor is in perfect spot - because it isn't. It has a lot of problems. But to me it seems that people are making judgments without even once playing around with armor, and claiming that it is completely useless. It isn't. It just isn't ES. :P And it is still far better in one-shot scenario than Evasion. :P

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Well, I think in this three-way Armor/Life,ES, Evasion, the most screwed one is Evasion. Still.

evasion is not hp pool like es or life, why you place it apart?
see all variants vs atziri shots:
ES+armor and phys red. = you can facetank one hit
ES+evasion or block = you can facetank one hit and sometimes you can face tank many of them
life+evasion or block = sometimes you can face tank one hit. Sometimes not. Be lucky.
life+armor and phys red.= getting hit is always -10% or tp to standart.

Armor + Endurance charges are really good against physical (even better if you add stuff like AA and blashpemy/enfeeble on top of it). but yeah it does shit for elemental damages. Fortify help a bit but it's not always on (except if you are Champion or sacrifice one support to it), a good way to buff melee would be to give it a more multiplier so including it in your main setup doesn't feel like a huge dps sacrifice.

And even if they do buff it, you'd still have to deal with GGG joker card aka monster elemental degen that are extremely hard to mitigate. I understand that some attacks are not supposed to be tanked but when you are at extreme close range, those are way more difficult to avoid.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Also, not sure how much armor you have, but if you have a lot, all you can do is Uber izaro or just the physical damage bosses, if you have too little even Uber izaro will kill you with 6,6k life in that scenario you mention. All it takes is a wave slash.

It's simply NOT true.
My Slayer has 800 armour (it's as good as 0 VS uber Izaro), and he was able to facetank him with 15 charges (charge disruptors) without dying. Guess how much HP he had? 5500!
Fortify, 7 endurance charges, chaos golem, enfeeble, AA, smart flask usage (granite, basalt, stibnite) - that's the stuff what really matters. And only then, armour from gear.

Strength melee is completely fine against physical damage. But he's wrecked when elemental damage comes.

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Perq wrote:

Did, deals far more damage (obviously), but still tank-able. At least conduit alone. :P

There is a large difference between "conduit alone" and "conduit+essences". MY slayer facentaked even Conduits+charge disruptors, barely, with almost 7k HP, in previous league. But i bet, Conduits+Essences combo is just a oneshot sentence.

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HoloPaladin wrote:

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Well, I think in this three-way Armor/Life,ES, Evasion, the most screwed one is Evasion. Still.

evasion is not hp pool like es or life, why you place it apart?
see all variants vs atziri shots:
ES+armor and phys red. = you can facetank one hit
ES+evasion or block = you can facetank one hit and sometimes you can face tank many of them
life+evasion or block = sometimes you can face tank one hit. Sometimes not. Be lucky.
life+armor and phys red.= getting hit is always -10% or tp to standart.

What are Atziri's "shots" you talking about?

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Also, not sure how much armor you have, but if you have a lot, all you can do is Uber izaro or just the physical damage bosses, if you have too little even Uber izaro will kill you with 6,6k life in that scenario you mention. All it takes is a wave slash.

It's simply NOT true.
My Slayer has 800 armour (it's as good as 0 VS uber Izaro), and he was able to facetank him with 15 charges (charge disruptors) without dying. Guess how much HP he had? 5500!
Fortify, 7 endurance charges, chaos golem, enfeeble, AA, smart flask usage (granite, basalt, stibnite) - that's the stuff what really matters. And only then, armour from gear.

Strength melee is completely fine against physical damage. But he's wrecked when elemental damage comes.

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Perq wrote:

Did, deals far more damage (obviously), but still tank-able. At least conduit alone. :P

There is a large difference between "conduit alone" and "conduit+essences". MY slayer facentaked even Conduits+charge disruptors, barely, with almost 7k HP, in previous league. But i bet, Conduits+Essences combo is just a oneshot sentence.

Conduits+Essences is death sentence. :P Unless you have 15k pool, and instantly leech to the full. Then maybe you can survive that.

GGG missed a huge opportunity with the Ancestral Totem skills to be huge buff to melee. They shouldn't have been totems but buffs to use for characters in melee range. They should have been something like a Karui Spirit around you, that when it hits something, it grants you a buff. Protector could have given some type of damage reduction and Warchief could have been the offensive Damage and Att Spd option.

They should also consider adding a few more Fortify Nodes across areas near the Marauder, Ranger tree. Some can grant additional fort effect and/or maybe other boosts to fortify. They can cap Fort Effect if they feel like some classes could stack outrageous ammounts like Juggernauts.

Add some type of 2 handed off slot like quiver. Grip or something.

Either increase some of the life nodes around the board. Or add some smaller values to notables. Especially notables that feel less appealing right now.

Take a look a possible leech changes. I know they changed this before but this might be something to look at.

Some of these changes could give melee characters some more options to utilize in taking hits. Most people need to realize though that you have to stack several defenses together. I doubt there will ever be a time where melee characters and ranged characters will be equal. GGG would have to re design a new game from the ground up with this in mind. They simply can't do that atm with PoE. It's not as simple as buffing the life stat.