Blade Vortex in 2.4. why i see it as BUFF instead of nerf

"Lowering the max stack to 20, but having 63% MORE damage at level 20 gem."

Plenty of people out there might consider the patch as a nerf.
However, i personally think it is A SUPER BUFF!! WDF?

Okay, so let me explain in detail. I'll give two examples.

Firstly, with proper setup, one can reach 0.18~0.20 cast time. lets make it 0.20 to make life easier.
So that will make 5 cast per second, which means you need 10 second to reach 50 stack.
And all that 10 second you can NOT even move. Because as soon as you stopped channeling, the existing BV will start to degrade.
How many times in end game(T14~15) have you seen a 10 second window around a boss?

People are more likely to charge up the stacks before engaging the boss, so you can manually dodge and such. So now lets say our BV have 10 second duration, which not everyone has. When you reach 50 stack, and as soon as you stop casting, the stack count is going to drop DRASTICALLY. As fast as how you cast them that is.

So in reality, unless you are channeling right beside the boss, you are not going to get the full potential of 50 stacks. And we all know standing close to the boss going HAM doesn't end well everytime.

And even if you spent tuns of passive and a gem slot as well as a helmet enchant to reach 14 second duration. you still only have 4 second full stack up time,after you keep casting for 10 second!

Now lets talk about a more average up-time people would have.
We still assume 5 cast per second, but lowering the duration to 7.25 second (so no enchant nor extra gem slot, only 1 passive ring.)
We can reach 36 stacks if we keep standing still and cast for 7.25 second. But then we will suffer from the same issue mentioned in example one.
Thus in reality, we are more likely to have a lot less stack than 36 when fighting a boss, or clearing maps.

For my own build, when clearing map mobs, i usually need only 6~8 stacks to one-shot everything. Sometimes even less, depending on the mobs variety and life. And for bosses, unless its a sandbag, otherwise we normally have only about 2~5 second of safe time to cast. so we are more likely to have constant 15~20 stacks when fighting bosses.

So before the patch, i need 7 seconds to reach peak stack(36) and starts lossing stacks instantly.
But after patch, i need 4 second to reach peak stack but deals almost the same damage and last 3 seconds long!!

(stack * post-patch damage)
(20 * 1.63= 32.6)

Pre-patch i need 6.5 second to reach what i can do in 4 seconds post-patch. And the damage pre-patch last only 1 second while it last 3 seconds post-patch.

Less time needed that last even longer.

So for very hard end-game bosses, i can actually deal more damage for the small cast time they give me in-between attacks.
Not even mention the formula of physical reduction. Now we hit harder each hit, they can mitigate less damage.

Can i just introduce you to concept of skill damage efficiency.
Scaling say skill with added damage is effected gretly.

Buffing primary damage is not same as buffing damage efficiency, untill we see if that aspect changed as well we dont know mach.

Scaling damage with Hetred, added fire for example may be litle higer but in same time you lose 30 stack of BW. Same time if efficiency is not changed added clold, lightning and chaos gems will be even worst.

Generaly skill whas rather strong so difrance in regular playing will sims probably better but storming bosses will be considerably difrent.

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nEVER_BoRN wrote:

Can i just introduce you to concept of skill damage efficiency.
Scaling say skill with added damage is effected gretly.

Buffing primary damage is not same as buffing damage efficiency, untill we see if that aspect changed as well we dont know mach.

ah, yes, damage efficiency, i totally forgot about that.
However, i dont see many builds using "added flat damage" while using BV.
Like many other phys builds, people tends to use "%" based supports on BV. (conc, controlled dis, hatred, HoA, added fire, ming's, etc..)
So i dont think it will affect the overall damage that much.

"

Scaling damage with Hetred, added fire fir example may be litle higer but in same time you lose 30 stack of BW.

As for the stacks, i think i made my point clear enough in my original post.
losing 18 stacks (cause 20 post-patch is equivalent to 32 pre-patch) wouldnt affect much.
Because a lot of times people are not even "Maintaining 50 stacks", even if you can reach 50 max. maintaining 50 stacks all time in boss fights are just un-optimal.

for sure it's a buff to clear speed since you rarely hold above 15 stacks but for bosses it is for sure a nerf

yea it s stupid and cyclone still nerfed

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Sojs wrote:

for sure it's a buff to clear speed since you rarely hold above 15 stacks but for bosses it is for sure a nerf

We can all agree that it was too strong for bosses anyway.
This is a nice change, nerfing the skill while keeping it viable.
GG GGG

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NomuraSho wrote:

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The goal of the nerf was probably 'Master Surgeon' Pathfinder tankability. They were able to facetank almost anything including "one shot moves" like Core Malachai Smash.
I do not think the intent was to make BV worse for "so so" builds who actually have to "play the game as intended" - like having to avoid one shot moves from bosses as you posted.

Incidentally they also weakened one other obvious way to facetank some of the "one shot moves": Nerf of Juggernaut permanent IC. So this fits together quite well.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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NomuraSho wrote:

...

The goal of the nerf was probably 'Master Surgeon' Pathfinder tankability. They were able to facetank almost anything including "one shot moves" like Core Malachai Smash.
I do not think the intent was to make BV worse for "so so" builds who actually have to "play the game as intended" - like having to avoid one shot moves from bosses as you posted.

Incidentally they also weakened one other obvious way to facetank some of the "one shot moves": Nerf of Juggernaut permanent IC. So this fits together quite well.

yeah, after so many people mentioned it. i kind of thinking that way as well.
they nerf the stack count while maintaining similar damage so that pathfinder are less likely to have 100% up-time for vinktars.
However, with the damage still over the top, i do think it is still a viable way to face tank things, just not 100% up-time.

This will greatly facilitate regular trash clear and will slow down boss kills from 1-3 seconds to 2-6 seconds. I see it as a buff overall.

When I ran with my BV buddy in Prophecy, he was using around 10 stacks to oneshot everything but bosses, now I assume 8 stacks (or two casts with echo) will be more than enough.

It will reduce flask charge generation through crits, of course. I feel kinda sad for pathfinders since this class was amazing with BV and CoC. I never played it since I hate the ranger portraits and model and I hate flask spam but, oh well.

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nEVER_BoRN wrote:

Can i just introduce you to concept of skill damage efficiency.
Scaling say skill with added damage is effected gretly.

They never changed skill damage per hit significantly without also changing damage effectiveness, there's a scaling factor number that's very similar through all of the spell roster, very few spells deviate from it more than 10-20%.

But yes, I also think this was a buff overall, except in some edge applications.