ProjectPT: "we're not rewarded for challenges...

My firm belief is that no game can be sustained forever, and iteration through sequels is mandatory.

You might be right that GGG would lose a lot of people without pushing out more content. But it'll also lose a lot of people ignoring polish. This isn't some fairy tale where there's always an answer which leads to a win. It's a Roguelike. It's a little pretentious to think you'll make it through on your first life.

"

Razis wrote:

I remember I heard some other dev from a different company saying that you need to give the player a bad choice as well as a good one, otherwise it doesn't matter what he picks and the whole experience feels bland.

I'm for balancing, obviously, everyone is for balancing and stability, everywhere. Everyone thinks it would be the best and it's just plain and obvious. But there is definitely more to it than that.

Given the depths of PoE's customization, you will always have the possibility to make bad choices, don't worry about that.
However, gimping oneself because of picking a "bad" skill isn't very fun, and it does not just comes down to the player lack of understanding to make the thing really shine, and that's a bit sad ( with the power creep everything is good to some extent, but some skills just seem to be completely overshadowing others, same for ascendancies ).

A little bit off rail there sorry.

I will quote myself from another thread, which I think is on point with the subject:

"

Give me a way to tune up the difficulty for better rewards, like:

5 settings of difficulty, each adding (makeshift numbers):
+10% quantity, +10% rarity, +30% monster life, +10% monster speed, +5% monster damage, +5% monster damage reduction, +1 monster level

So that i can tune up the difficulty of the game as my character progresses and not faceroll 95% of the content only to get killed by the 5% of the game which is usually spike damage.

Players get incentives to push their builds so they can do harder and harder content, and get rewarded by better rewards and experience.
Builds that can survive by smart play/build rather than 1 shotting the screen start to shine because monster life / damage reduction is high enough that they can't be 1 shot anymore.

But generally yeah, hard bosses should give incentive to kill them even more so the fact you need a map unlike in Diablo 2 where if you could kill Hell baal nothing stopped you from farming him as long as you wanted.

But that is what happens you put economy over player expectation / experience.
For example, look at what we have as "crafting" in this game.
I get more fun from crafting in Diablo 2 than here, I think that is saying a lot about the system.

"

Razis wrote:

I remember I heard some other dev from a different company saying that you need to give the player a bad choice as well as a good one, otherwise it doesn't matter what he picks and the whole experience feels bland.

Yeah, but in PoE it's like you have a choice to either do something which is RNG upon RNG upon RNG which is then access gated with more RNG.

Or..

Skip all the above in one go and get the reward you might eventually, but most likely won't, get from the 'bad' choice.


Choice... choose wisely, guys.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Yeah, but in PoE it's like you have a choice to either do something which is RNG upon RNG upon RNG which is then access gated with more RNG.

you ever thought of the consequences of removing rng and having rewards increase linearily with playtime invested?

did you ever think of the conseuences of cutting your player base in half because one half has beaten your game in one week while the other half needs months to finish the same game content after you balanced your game for the linear increase?

i got it that you got plenty of time to play the game and so find it annoying to have a random outcome of things, you would profit massively from a linear reward scaling. nice for you but pretty egoistic.

just come forward with some suggestions to replace rng with something different which equalizes game progress for nolifers and people with restricted time, i'm pretty interested.

"

vio wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Yeah, but in PoE it's like you have a choice to either do something which is RNG upon RNG upon RNG which is then access gated with more RNG.

you ever thought of the consequences of removing rng and having rewards increase linearily with playtime invested?

did you ever think of the conseuences of cutting your player base in half because one half has beaten your game in one week while the other half needs months to finish the same game content after you balanced your game for the linear increase?

i got it that you got plenty of time to play the game and so find it annoying to have a random outcome of things, you would profit massively from a linear reward scaling. nice for you but pretty egoistic.

just come forward with some suggestions to replace rng with something different which equalizes game progress for nolifers and people with restricted time, i'm pretty interested.

Who suggested removing RNG? WTF?

Funny thing is, that's EXACTLY what GGG do by design, by making the RNG so bad and always offering a full circumvent.

I love RNG, it's what gives the wow factor.

PoE RNG isn't there for the wow factor, it's there to get people to circumvent the RNG via trade.

I think the wow factor is good in a game, I think RNG is good in a game, but when you make it so ridiculously layered and gated to the point where the wow factor will almost definitely not happen, for no other reason than to get people to ignore that RNG and skip it, that's really bad.

Farm helm enchant by running content or buy enchanted item and ignore content?

Which seems the better design?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Who suggested removing RNG? WTF?

sorry, looks like i completely misunderstood you.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Farm helm enchant by running content or buy enchanted item and ignore content?

i'm totally with you in this, trading in it's current form is completely overpowered because improves one's gain linearily with the time spent in the game.

there are 3 solutions:
1.) make trade more difficult: put a tax on every trade to fight item price deflation, make players doing a quest before being able to put a item into the global shop / buy a item, avoid players specifying buyout prices, etc

2.) make trading independent from your online status

3.) remove trading

i'm all for 1.

"

vio wrote:

there are 3 solutions:
1.) make trade more difficult: put a tax on every trade to fight item price deflation, make players doing a quest before being able to put a item into the global shop / buy a item, avoid players specifying buyout prices, etc

2.) make trading independent from your online status

3.) remove trading

i'm all for 1.

You would still need to trade to get currency...to pay the taxe to trade...to get currency.

"

Head_Less wrote:

You would still need to trade to get currency...to pay the taxe to trade...to get currency

eh, don't get irritated on the tax thing, i know it triggers people because they don't like it.
a tax is just a fee which can be everything, game time, monster kills, orbs, items...

personally i like the "monster kill" tax the most: to be able to trade once you have to kill a certain amount of (rare) monsters ...

I think it is really hard to set hardest maps to drop better rares and uniques, since rng, economy and all that, but they can't tell me they can't up orb drop rate in highest tier maps and in really hard rolled 6 or 8 mod maps.
Not just up the drop rate of orbs, and i am not talking about IIQ rolled on those maps, but default orb drop rates, and also quality of those orbs.
So for example T1 map stays the same, but T2 map drops 5% more orbs and so on. Same thing with number of mods on map. So T15 map with 6 mods should drop like idk i am making number here, but something like 150% more orbs and of higher tier, so you dont see transmutes and augments all the time but chaos, regals, fusings and other higher tier orbs a lot more. Tbh most divine and exalted orbs should drop in hardest content.

Ofc all that + IIQ on the map should be more satisfying and wouldn't break the economy.

Mods should get same treatment, for example -max should give you more orbs then some other not even close dangerous mod.