Bone Helmet implicit, "powercreep" or outdated passive tree?

Hello community,

So I have seen the bone helmet that will come with the new expansion, and I was instantly thrilled, as I really like minion builds. But when I thought about it a little more, I started to feel that this implicit (probably 35-45%), compared to the increases that we get from the tree (20% being the highest value of a single node), is very hefty. Before this, implicits were never overpowering passive nodes (correct me if im wrong) by more than double the value. Im not crying out for a nerf towards an item that is not even released yet, but I wanted to throw this observation out there, and ask the question:

"Powercreep", or outdated skill tree?

One thing a lot of minion builds do is put them in helms with +2 to minion gems modifiers. Compare a 4L minion to a 6L attack (with more modifiers) and I don't think 45% on a helm is out of whack comparatively.

That said, there has definitely been a lot of power creep recently.

Thing is, +2 to minion gems is an affix, meaning its not guaranteed to have it on top of good other affixes. It also means you can have it on top of the guaranteed implicit of the bone helmet.

Not counting weapon implicits or enchantments/corruptions (which are often insane):

+30 to max life is probably about 1 decent passive point's worth, although flat life by itself isn't that common on the tree. +40 to max life is definitely worth a passive point, as the Oak bridgade will happily point out!

+30% to a single resist (or +10% to all resists) is better than a normal passive point, and a bit worse than a resistance notable.

+30% increased critical strike chance is better than a normal node, but worse than most crit notables.

+35 to strength or +12 to all attributes is a bit better than a crappy notable.

"Has one socket" is not really comparable.

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So in general I would say this new helmet's mod is comparable to a weapon or enchantment implicit, rather than the implicit of a normal item.

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13s_D4rK wrote:

Hello community,

So I have seen the bone helmet that will come with the new expansion, and I was instantly thrilled, as I really like minion builds. But when I thought about it a little more, I started to feel that this implicit (probably 35-45%), compared to the increases that we get from the tree (20% being the highest value of a single node), is very hefty. Before this, implicits were never overpowering passive nodes (correct me if im wrong) by more than double the value. Im not crying out for a nerf towards an item that is not even released yet, but I wanted to throw this observation out there, and ask the question:

"Powercreep", or outdated skill tree?

See wands/sceptres implicits. Profane wand has 12% cast speed, that's 3 strong nodes worth on a single piece of gear. And then you can dual wield them, and craft cast speed on them. It's kind of sickening. Still probably underused though because of the whirling blades meta. I'm waiting for my staff buff to come around to compensate, since I like using a caster staff -- but I thinkn the game is almost telling me to just use wands.

Dont forget that an enchantment (supposedly) overwrites an implicit. So this new implicit is competing with helmet enchantments.
If it is any weaker than that it will be strictly worse than a good enchantment on the helm. Even at the current value many builds utilizing minions may rather choose an enchantment instead.
So whether it is better or worse than other implicits in other item slots (harbinger bow implicit is way better anyways) doesnt really matter.

Not that I disagree with the power creep. But this implicit is not a good example for it. At best this implicit is somewhat better than the best possible helmet enchantment for a few out of many build.

"

13s_D4rK wrote:

Thing is, +2 to minion gems is an affix, meaning its not guaranteed to have it on top of good other affixes. It also means you can have it on top of the guaranteed implicit of the bone helmet.

Yes, I was saying that you are getting a 4L minion while non-minion builds often have 6L, so it makes sense.

"

Timewar9 wrote:

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13s_D4rK wrote:

Thing is, +2 to minion gems is an affix, meaning its not guaranteed to have it on top of good other affixes. It also means you can have it on top of the guaranteed implicit of the bone helmet.

Yes, I was saying that you are getting a 4L minion while non-minion builds often have 6L, so it makes sense.

well.. not quite. your main minion should go into the chest (or queens escape) anyway as the 5link/6link just gives a lot more than +2 can ever do
only the supporting minions go into +2 and only when there are no better helmet options - my current summoner does not use Bones of Ullr nor the +2 helmet and is doing just fine..

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sidtherat wrote:

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Timewar9 wrote:

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13s_D4rK wrote:

Thing is, +2 to minion gems is an affix, meaning its not guaranteed to have it on top of good other affixes. It also means you can have it on top of the guaranteed implicit of the bone helmet.

Yes, I was saying that you are getting a 4L minion while non-minion builds often have 6L, so it makes sense.

well.. not quite. your main minion should go into the chest (or queens escape) anyway as the 5link/6link just gives a lot more than +2 can ever do
only the supporting minions go into +2 and only when there are no better helmet options - my current summoner does not use Bones of Ullr nor the +2 helmet and is doing just fine..

Generally as a rule of thumb, a damage link gives at least 30% more damage, where a base level of a spell gives an extra 10% more damage. So yeah, +2 helm is a poor man's 5 link in terms of damage output. But if you just want the tankiest summon out there, the +2 helm is better because it also increases hp and other defensive stats of your summons where damage links do not.

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Dont forget that an enchantment (supposedly) overwrites an implicit. So this new implicit is competing with helmet enchantments.
If it is any weaker than that it will be strictly worse than a good enchantment on the helm. Even at the current value many builds utilizing minions may rather choose an enchantment instead.
So whether it is better or worse than other implicits in other item slots (harbinger bow implicit is way better anyways) doesnt really matter.

Not that I disagree with the power creep. But this implicit is not a good example for it. At best this implicit is somewhat better than the best possible helmet enchantment for a few out of many build.

Apart from +skeletons per cast . 40% minion damage is better than all minion based enchantments by a rather grotesque margin when you factor in that it double dips on poison .

Most minion enchants are laughably bad anyway so it is really only competing for at best a handful of options.


No what floats or sinks the bone helm is ultimately the fact that it is a hybrid helm making it a shit base for energy shield heavy builds. A properly rolled bone helm is not going to hold a candle to a 350+ es minion helm for es builds . that low 50 base es just wont scale for shit...


but for life based summoners .. it is probably the best base you can hope for . and completely eliminates the need to do the god awful uber lab to farm for that 1 and 300 chance of getting weaker version in the form of a minion specific enchant.


If you are a life build ... and dont already have a GG helmet with a gg minion enchant. this helm effectively ends your quest of a helm enchant forever.