Why are people obsessed with nerfs? - Feedback

Thank you everyone, i think i got the information i needed

1. Power creep. It happens, it grows. How? See point 2.

2. Devs sometimes make mistakes and release content that they cannot predict how it will affect game and if it will add to the power creep.

Solution, make adjustments, while making game interesting. Dev team sure do has a difficult job, only it feels bad when only thing that is consistent, is inconsistency. But game is everchanging and we will yet see what happens on next big patch.

Because the game is inadvertently being balanced around broken shit. Nerf Cast on Crit, Nerf Poison, Nerf anything thats broken as hell right now, or buff up everything else to meet itself level (which just creates power creep).

Its stupid honestly and when i heard what kind of balancing decisions they make during that last podcast i was actually pretty disgusted. "We are scared to nerf things people like" shouldnt be any sort of excuse for things like COC existing, or Mjolner. Alot of people hating on Zeno for pointing that out, yet whenever he doesnt speak up about that kind of stuff people say hes brown nosing.

Zenos point during that conversion on skill balance was excellent and needed to be made. Theres too much broken, exponential scaling synergy with these kinds of things.

Because my e-peen is clearly four times as big as anybody else in the community.

All that's left is for justice to prevail and the game to accurately depict this truth.

Nerf everything and let my elemental hit build flourish to it's rightful epic state.

That is all.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Necromael wrote:

Thank you everyone, i think i got the information i needed

1. Power creep. It happens, it grows. How? See point 2.

2. Devs sometimes make mistakes and release content that they cannot predict how it will affect game and if it will add to the power creep.

Solution, make adjustments, while making game interesting. Dev team sure do has a difficult job, only it feels bad when only thing that is consistent, is inconsistency. But game is everchanging and we will yet see what happens on next big patch.

Heres the thing though, they should have some insight into these kinds of things.

Like when Kingsguard got added, you cant tell me they didnt even once think to themselves "Wow, this is really broken for Mjolner and Cast on Crit". Kingsguard is a GGG designed unique by the way, not a supporter unique, correct me if im wrong.

Honestly i applaud supporters who are clever enough to get their items through the balancing team, like the creator of Lightning Coil, Aegis, Mjolner, etc, but some of these uniques that get through are just too obvious.

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OP

some of us dont think that fun = playing the most op shit and bending over the game to the point you can play it blind and notice when bosses melt under you.

some of us think that fun = when game bends you over. that fun is when you have a lot of varying choices in terms of skill support, skill selection and class makeup. fun is having a tangible balance that is supposed to be in a quasi-competitive game that you cannot mod.

you are operating in kindergarten terms of FUN= candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner

people who want nerfs want candy once a week and real, tangible food every day. so long term their body wont be fucked up and their teeth rotten because of stupid decision to have all candy all day long


"Is game balance when you look at your characters and you envy some builds that are better than yours but you don't want to make them cause you don't like them, or cause you don't have the currency to do that? "

envy isnt a good trait. it actually exemplifies whats wrong with the game. most people only care about their well-being.

"I acknowledge that game balance is what developers perceive of it, but what do players perceive as game balance?"

meaningful choice with a BASELINE balancing point that doesnt one-shot map bosses. a skill like old ice nova or glacial cascade would be good baselines.

let me guess op, you dont like nerfs, but you like BUFFS right ? so why is that ? because buffs mean MOAR candy, amirite ? and nefs means taking candy away from you right ?

"

grepman wrote:

OP

some of us dont think that fun = playing the most op shit and bending over the game to the point you can play it blind and notice when bosses melt under you.

some of us think that fun = when game bends you over. that fun is when you have a lot of varying choices in terms of skill support, skill selection and class makeup. fun is having a tangible balance that is supposed to be in a quasi-competitive game that you cannot mod.

you are operating in kindergarten terms of FUN= candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner

people who want nerfs want candy once a week and real, tangible food every day. so long term their body wont be fucked up and their teeth rotten because of stupid decision to have all candy all day long


"Is game balance when you look at your characters and you envy some builds that are better than yours but you don't want to make them cause you don't like them, or cause you don't have the currency to do that? "

envy isnt a good trait. it actually exemplifies whats wrong with the game. most people only care about their well-being.

"I acknowledge that game balance is what developers perceive of it, but what do players perceive as game balance?"

meaningful choice with a BASELINE balancing point that doesnt one-shot map bosses. a skill like old ice nova or glacial cascade would be good baselines.

let me guess op, you dont like nerfs, but you like BUFFS right ? so why is that ? because buffs mean MOAR candy, amirite ? and nefs means taking candy away from you right ?

If i am oneshot by lag or clunky game mechanics that doesn't make me happy as i cant counter it in any way, so the game bends me over.

I have many characters and i play both the op builds, and selfmade builds which i plan for days at a time and i am happy to see them perform once in action and in that way i learn more about the game and what works and what doesn't work efficiently as i would like it to.

what is fun for me? or for you? I find not my fun in builds, but in long term goals. Doing 1200 dried lake runs and 100 atziri is fun for me. Gathering tabs of leather belts to chance and saving exalts until i bleed is fun for me. Having a 1shot fest is not fun for me, but clearly all my posts indicate so, well, language is a complicated thing and i dont justify myself unless called out like this. I grew up on d2 and 12 year old korean arpgs, so only fun for me in this game is endless grind.

Oh and yes, this game is flourishing with builds, only we are limited by our imagination. It is possible by using basic combinatorics to calculate all the possibilities. And not all builds are shared publicly.

I couldn't care less about nerfs and buffs, but what bothers me is the approach, not the thing per se. I still have 2 chars actively using voltaxic and 1 windripper after the nerfs, why? Because i like mechanics behind those items and i like what i made them to be. Game would be much more fun for other people too if they tried to simply use items regardless if they are not the best choice for speed/dps.

I will repeat, we have varying choice, but its not always the top tier thing, hence its called variety.

Be creative.

The problem is they nerf things but never buff anything else. I could list a thousand items that got destroyed or are just garbage and they will never touch them because GGG wants to force a meta.

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good post, and I agree a lot with it

then I dont understand why you equaled nerfs = to not having fun in your post

I mean, second sentence in your op

'Is it goal of community to make game less fun?'

it doesn't make sense, hence my assumptions - and they appeared to be wrong. please accept apologies.

buffs and nerfs dont make the game less or more fun for someone who likes balance.
its the consequences of nerfs and buffs that makes the game more fun.

meaningful choices diminish as currently damage is king. theres less creativity with skills because who needs debuffs/nonstacking dots/interesting mechanics when you can just tack on most damaging skills and one shot everything reliably and fast ? you need less and less consistent defenses because if you oneshot before mobs can get barely one attack at you

so I dont understand you post then. you ask why nerf things, when theres a perfectly logical explanation for it. it's to balance shit. nerfing 5-10 skills is always easier than buffing 30 other skills and it prevents power creep, as opposed to promoting power creep when those 30 skills are buffed, and inevitably buffed too much in some cases.

I dont think there ever should exist a point where a noob asks whats most noob friendly build and there are definitive answers, in a game that has CHOICE. I dont think there should exist supports that are free more multipliers that are easily best in slot just because they have insane damage multipliers.