Feedback and Suggestions - Why are people obsessed with nerfs? - Feedback - Forum

" sidtherat wrote: the only people that do not want broken items/builds fixed are people that base their entire self-esteem on 'being better than other players in a video game'. being better by basically cheating (using known broken item/build) people that want the game to remain 'a game' opposed to 'self-esteem boost' want to get stuff like CoCS, ranged vs melee and RotC fixed. with them in the game it is not a game but some kind of a joke when one way of playing is 10 times better than the other one. and it matters because ggg creates the game around the top-end (rightfully so) forgetting what a balance-mess theyve created you entirely prove my point, if gameplay is better with those items/builds, why not make other items/builds so good that we want to play them? I couldnt care less about my self esteem, while i'm having fun in my solo play with almost no trading with my rotc/coc/eq/voidheart builds. Spreading salt since 2006	Posted by Necromael on Jul 27, 2016, 12:04:11 PM Quote this Post
it is called a power creep what you want - something that we have too much of ALREADY the 'why nerf one thing obvious thing, lets buff eighty other builds without actually f.. up the entire game with unintended and rushed changes' approach ruined more than one game.	Posted by sidtherat on Jul 27, 2016, 12:06:42 PM Quote this Post
Only read about half of the OP, there is one very obvious reason that Sid just mentioned : power creep. Some parts of the game have became freaking ridiculous already, it rains loot everywhere, and there is seldom excitement seeing 99+% of the content drop at your feet. Many thread are about this issue already, and for a good reason : it changes the game, and not in a good way imho. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz on Jul 27, 2016, 12:23:16 PM Quote this Post
" Necromael wrote: It has become a trend. Check first 5 pages of feedback and suggestions, not a single thread asking to buff something, while nerf threads are everywhere. This is monstrously inaccurate. And your entire argument is based on this observation. I checked the first page, and most of the threads are just feature suggestions to improve QoL or add some more OP skills or uniques. The threads asking for buffs include: - A thread asking to make exalts vendor buyable. - A thread about buffing scion. - A thread about buffing brittle emperor drop rate. - A thread complaining about the exp nerf and asking to buff red map exp. There are three threads asking for nerfs that I can see: - A thread asking to nerf ROTC (but still keep it viable) - A thread asking to nerf volatile blood. - A thread asking to make PoE better for group play, which suggests nerfing 'items' as a way to achieve this. That's it. Your whole argument is based on a false statement. You appear to be the one who is obsessed with nerfs. The actually worrying trend is that over a page of people believed your bogus claim, and replied as though it were true. Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756 Last edited by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 1:24:34 PM	Posted by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 1:22:52 PM Quote this Post
" dudiobugtron wrote: The actually worrying trend is that over a page of people believed your bogus claim, and replied as though it were true. As much as i despise it; truth, facts, analysis, and intentions do not matter in public opinion. The republican election campaign should teach you that. All that matters to the public is perception. If there is a perceived problem, it is a real problem. Furthermore, a concept can be brought up and discussed even though the initial posting included false information. For years i searched for deep truths. A thousand revelations. At the very edge...the ability to think itself dissolves away.Thinking in human language is the problem. Any separation from 'the whole truth' is incomplete.My incomplete concepts may add to your 'whole truth', accept it or think about it	Posted by SkyCore on Jul 27, 2016, 2:08:08 PM Quote this Post
" dudiobugtron wrote: " Necromael wrote: It has become a trend. Check first 5 pages of feedback and suggestions, not a single thread asking to buff something, while nerf threads are everywhere. This is monstrously inaccurate. And your entire argument is based on this observation. I checked the first page, and most of the threads are just feature suggestions to improve QoL or add some more OP skills or uniques. The threads asking for buffs include: - A thread asking to make exalts vendor buyable. - A thread about buffing scion. - A thread about buffing brittle emperor drop rate. - A thread complaining about the exp nerf and asking to buff red map exp. There are three threads asking for nerfs that I can see: - A thread asking to nerf ROTC (but still keep it viable) - A thread asking to nerf volatile blood. - A thread asking to make PoE better for group play, which suggests nerfing 'items' as a way to achieve this. That's it. Your whole argument is based on a false statement. You appear to be the one who is obsessed with nerfs. The actually worrying trend is that over a page of people believed your bogus claim, and replied as though it were true. you are correct about 1 claim, buff scion, exalts/brittle/exp werent the theme of my thread, read my op again, i am talking about "equipable items/passives/skill gems/builds" and not about drops/currency/exp my argument is based on 6 years being on this forum, thx for your attempt at debunking me though Spreading salt since 2006 Last edited by Necromael on Jul 27, 2016, 2:14:05 PM	Posted by Necromael on Jul 27, 2016, 2:13:30 PM Quote this Post
At the moment, on the second page there's a thread asking to buff spectres by having them scale up. There's also a thread asking to nerf vortex degen. On the third page, there's an 11 page thread about buffing melee, and a thread suggesting a range buff for leap slam. There is a thread asking to bring back reflect aura, perhaps this counts as a 'nerf' to builds? But then the volatile blood nerf on page 1 would count as a buff to builds. No other relevant nerf threads I can see. On the fourth page there is a thread suggesting to make IIQ available on rare items again, and a thread about buffing puncture. No nerf threads for "equipable items/passives/skill gems/builds" that I can see. " Necromael wrote: my argument is based on 6 years being on this forum, thx for your attempt at debunking me though No problem! I'm glad that with 6 years of experience, you have learned when to back down from your claims when they are not substantiated by the facts. Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756 Last edited by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 2:33:41 PM	Posted by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 2:31:38 PM Quote this Post
If i edit my op and remove that one sentence that pains you, will i be right then? And then my op is flawless? Or you will keep avoiding the main core of my op and derail thread more? Spreading salt since 2006 Last edited by Necromael on Jul 27, 2016, 2:37:47 PM	Posted by Necromael on Jul 27, 2016, 2:37:14 PM Quote this Post
Remember dual spork totems? Never again should a single skill be much better than everything else for such a long time. Buffing everything else is not an alternative if you don't want power creep run out of control eventually.	Posted by Sa_Re on Jul 27, 2016, 2:39:40 PM Quote this Post
Sure! :) Is think this is the main core of your post (am I right?): Spoiler " Necromael wrote: What is the perceived game balance that everyones mouth is full of? Is game balance when you look at your characters and you envy some builds that are better than yours but you don't want to make them cause you don't like them, or cause you don't have the currency to do that? Or is game balance ruined when majority of players play same 5-10 builds? Maybe it is because they are actually fun and make gameplay feel fullfilling and rewarding when compared to others? Why not make other builds/skills/gems/items desirable in a same way, that would be waay more healthier diversity than getting things nerfed and on the level of undesirables. My subjective view, while ingame, is that there are skills/gems/items that are performing well, that are underperforming compared to well performing ones and 3rd category would be specific/special skills/gems/items that can be well performing in specific circumstances. Other people playing this game, regardless if they use well performing or underperforming items/skills/gems, they don't affect my gameplay at all. My gameplay experience is what i make of it, and not what others make of it. Well performing builds can only affect me in a way that they can close the gap that is called rng better, but guess what, there is still rng. Someone with the fastest clearing build, best items, may have the worst of luck with rng, while some turtle build may have supreme rng luck daily. So why should i again care about others? What is game balance in this terms? I acknowledge that game balance is what developers perceive of it, but what do players perceive as game balance? Can we ever hope to see patch notes that look like this : "skill x has been underperforming for years, so we decided to increase its area of effect/hitbox/damage/effect by zz% so it is on par with other major skills used". During my stay on this part of forums i have rarely, like 1 in 150 responses, had seen a good reason that would say why x thing should be nerfed, everyone pulls the game balance reason without ever explaining what is the game balance to them, and how it would affect them and their gameplay directly. If i was better with words i would write a few more pages of reasons/examples or whatever but i think this is enough. (Also remember all those nerfs done years ago, compared to now, those nerfs seem harmless and could be easily reverted, they are meaningless and forgotten, game has moved on, but lot of people seem to forget that, that in a year or two, what they wanted so hard to nerf, will be meaningless) I totally agree with you that (except for pvp), how other people play the game doesn't really affect me that much. It maybe effects a bit in terms of trading, but that's hardly a big issue. The times when I think an item should be nerfed or buffed come from when I am playing or theory-crafting my own build. I imagine this is true for a lot of other people too. For eg, why nerf ROTC? Because for basically every bow build you can think up, RotC is BiS. This is really boring for me. Most of my desire to nerf items for gameplay reasons comes from having to use the same damn item in lots and lots of builds. A similar thing goes for passives too. It's annoying that Vaal Pact is such an effective passive for dealing with reflect. Without reflect, Vaal Pact would be a good tradeoff, but as it is, it's basically required for too many builds to function. (This is actually one argument for why the Lab is good, since it helps make Vaal Pact's downside more noticeable!) The same thing goes for buffs. If you try to use an item or skill and find that it is just too lame to use properly, this makes you think that it should be buffed. It would be really cool to try to make Veil of the night build, for eg. But what would be the point? It offers almost no benefit to go along with its huge nerf to resistances. Even a Gluttony of elements build has better options. So you can see why someone would think it should be buffed a bit. tl;dr: Bad gameplay balance has a big effect on how you make a build, it's not necessarily about envy. Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756 Last edited by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 2:56:02 PM	Posted by dudiobugtron on Jul 27, 2016, 2:54:43 PM Quote this Post