Tornado shot +1 chain vs +1 projectile


Idk how you not see base arrow do damage, i see it.
Also TS is graund targeted and have 100% pirce, subprojectile are difrent story tho.
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nEVER_BoRN wrote:

Idk how you not see base arrow do damage, i see it.
Also TS is graund targeted and have 100% pirce, subprojectile are difrent story tho.


Have you ever seen the baseline arrow actually hitting any enemies?
...
Really?

Stand next to an enemy. Fire TShot, aimed at the edge of the screen. See how the initial volley clearly murders whatever is next to you, long before the arrows split.
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Zrevnur wrote:
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dudiobugtron wrote:

It can chain back to the original target, but only after 2 further chains. So you need chain +3 to get a single projectile to hit the same enemy twice.


Just tested with Chain gem + Roth's Reach: I have been unable to see any indiction that it chains back to the first target.

Arc definitely does chain back to the initial target, but it appears that projectile skills don't. Apologies for the incorrect information.

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Zrevnur wrote:
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dudiobugtron wrote:

However, other projectiles from the attack can each hit different enemies. For eg, if there are 3 targets, and you use LMP to hit one target with each projectile, then each enemy will end up getting hit 3 times (one initial hit, plus one chain from each of the other projectiles).


Do you have a reference for that or did you actually test this? I tested it (in Perandus or Talisman with 2 targets) and it did not work like that.


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Zrevnur wrote:
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allforone999 wrote:

Chain each other doesn’t mean chain back. Lets say 2 projectiles P1 and P2, and 2 targets T1 and T2.
Without chain: P1->T1, P2->T2
With +1 chain: P1->T1->T2, P2->T2->T1

The damage doubled on each target.
The P1 and P2 above are the sub projectile of the tornado shot, I know the mechanics above doesn't apply to other projectile skill.


Ok thanks for clarification. Did not formally test with TS and do not know which shotgunning rules apply to it in which manner. I did play with Deadeye TS (with chain ascendancy) though and the increase in damage was notable but not enormous.

Thank you for opening my eyes to this! I was just going off my memory of ages ago when people actually used chain. I guess the shotgunning changes also ruined chain too?

As an aside, I am seriously angry at GGG for implementing chain in this way. It's just hilariously useless and weak compared to pierce, and has no upside. There aren't really any situations where chain is better than pierce for projectiles*. I'm not just talking about the support gems either. The chain mechanic is just a weaker, more useless version of pierce.

*except skills which can shotgun, like tornado shot.
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Jul 28, 2016, 6:09:24 PM
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dudiobugtron wrote:


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Zrevnur wrote:
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allforone999 wrote:

Chain each other doesn’t mean chain back. Lets say 2 projectiles P1 and P2, and 2 targets T1 and T2.
Without chain: P1->T1, P2->T2
With +1 chain: P1->T1->T2, P2->T2->T1

The damage doubled on each target.
The P1 and P2 above are the sub projectile of the tornado shot, I know the mechanics above doesn't apply to other projectile skill.


Ok thanks for clarification. Did not formally test with TS and do not know which shotgunning rules apply to it in which manner. I did play with Deadeye TS (with chain ascendancy) though and the increase in damage was notable but not enormous.

Thank you for opening my eyes to this! I was just going off my memory of ages ago when people actually used chain. I guess the shotgunning changes also ruined chain too?

As an aside, I am seriously angry at GGG for implementing chain in this way. It's just hilariously useless and weak compared to pierce, and has no upside. There aren't really any situations where chain is better than pierce for projectiles*. I'm not just talking about the support gems either. The chain mechanic is just a weaker, more useless version of pierce.

*except skills which can shotgun, like tornado shot.


Frost Blades works really well with Chain, and really crappy with Pierce.

Chain is a clearspeed booster more than a boss killer in most any circumstance - Chain means any projectile you fire is guaranteed* to hit multiple targets, while Pierce offers no such guarantee. In point of fact I tend to think the opposite - I can't figure out many situations where Pierce is better than Chain.

Multiple-projectile Tornado Shot is one of those cases, though. Tornado Shot blows goats until you can cover the screen in dozens of projectiles, either via GMP or Reach of the Council, at which point its damage comes from shotgunning multiple hits per click via Pierce. No other projectile skill really works this way - no amount of Piercing for EK or Split Arrow or Barrage or Fireball or whatever-else-you-like is going to let those skills hit one foe with more than one projectile. Tornado Shot's pretty much it.

For Tornado Shot in specific, extra arrows is best because the skill is very spotty and unreliable until you get to full-on Arrow Nova status, at which point you want the piercing anyways. For most any other skill, Chain ends up as more damage against packs than Pierce (outside the somewhat unusual Linear Corridor Pack, at least) and neither does you anymuch good against bosses anyways.
Last edited by 1453R on Jul 28, 2016, 6:51:32 PM
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1453R wrote:
Chain is a clearspeed booster more than a boss killer in most any circumstance - Chain means any projectile you fire is guaranteed* to hit multiple targets, while Pierce offers no such guarantee. In point of fact I tend to think the opposite - I can't figure out many situations where Pierce is better than Chain.

Situations where the enemy is moving mean chain has a decent chance of missing, since it aims at their previous location.
Situations where the enemy is in a big group mean its easy to aim and pierce through them all.

So basically, chain is better except in situations where there is a big group of enemies, or where the enemies are moving. Unfortunately for chain, this is pretty much every situation.

--------------------------------
PS: Frost blades I will accept - pierce requires aiming, and you don't have a lot of control over the aiming or projectile spread with frost blades. Especially if you use multistrike.
So chain is better in this case since it auto-aims for you.
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Jul 28, 2016, 6:56:52 PM
I finde Chain exceptional for CoC.
I use it long ago for my wand CoC BF with barage and uniq barage jewel.
In difrance to LMP/GMP chain can hit targets from all araund you and as i combinde BF with knock back it whas wery effective no mather how you position your self.
Last edited by nEVER_BoRN on Jul 28, 2016, 11:40:26 PM
Among all the projectile effect, chain is definitely the best. If you look at the deadeye node,
Powerful Precision: pierce+critical chance
Endless Munition: Extra projectile+accuracy+radius effect
Richochet: +1 chain
Pretty self-explanatory now.

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