Replace max resists with diminishing returns

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Serge91 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

I like the way it is. I don't want to feel obligated to get reissts on every piece of gear. Just getting which resists you need on a piece gives a lot more flexibility.

The correct response here. Keep in mind people various items don't have res, have negative res or in general would be a huge issue for GGG to try and rework a system that doesn't need changed. Its similar\based off of the d2 system that worked alright.

Well that's half true. It's fuckin bad to have 120% res on merciless but still having that cap 75%: why someone should invest passive or gear for resistance? Just for a possible "elemental weakness curse" map mod? Lol this is ridiculous: i think that the d2 system is quite obsolete right now. The player must be rewarder with something if he choose to heavily invest points in something: this doesn't happen with resistances if we exclude auras nodes (this is the only way that lets you boost your max res, which is fair but INDIRECT system which forces you to take aura nodes in order to get higher res) or a couple of uniques.

I would approve a resistance system based on that: it would force people to invest more in resistances if they want to be safer, at least in certain situations. Though i know it would require to rebalance the entire game: but that is something they have to do when they are gonna add act 5.

Ele weakness, specific curses from mobs\boxes, like flamibility as well. Keep in mind last I checked the ele weakness curse on you scaled with map tiers, white, yellow, red.

Players don't need to be rewarded extra for a stat they have an extreme amount of. You know what you need to get and getting anything beyond that is just suboptimal, you actually have a choice to get another suffix on various item or perhaps route your tree differently if you don't need the additional res.


You have literally no idea how difficult it would be to change the resistance system we see today, literally no idea.

They don't rebalance the entire game everytime they add an act, nor should they have to. They go thru various mechanics and interactions that needed change. They "rebalanced" leech in 2.0 as the larger mechanical change and I can say that, that was one of the easier ones they could have done, that being said it left various items worth far less in value and in usefulness, like the atziri belts for example.

Don't think for a second they will change the res system in PoE, that change is larger then anything else they have done and fundamentally changes so many more aspects of the game then you can imagine.

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Fruz wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

I totally agree that the current resist system is pretty boring. Althogh I think there's an easier solution: simply limit the availability of +resist. Remove it completely as a randomly rollable mod from gear, and limit it to uniques, jewels, and passives with reduced amounts. Then rebalance monster skills around ~30-50% player resists.

Basically, make it easy to get 20% resists, but moderately difficult to get 50%, and very hard to get 75%. The same end result as diminishing returns, but a tad simpler.

No, that would be terrible.
Having monsters balanced around 50% but players still being able to reach 75% would be terrible, you could just reduce by half the elemental damage of some monsters, making facetanking much easier for people with the gear.

Plus flasks

Not any different to how some builds can currently facetank all physical damage due to unusually high amounts of armor/phys mitigation. In fact, that's kind of the whole point. But getting 50%+ resists would be something you'd have to work very hard for, at the expense of other things you could be doing.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

I totally agree that the current resist system is pretty boring. Althogh I think there's an easier solution: simply limit the availability of +resist. Remove it completely as a randomly rollable mod from gear, and limit it to uniques, jewels, and passives with reduced amounts. Then rebalance monster skills around ~30-50% player resists.

Basically, make it easy to get 20% resists, but moderately difficult to get 50%, and very hard to get 75%. The same end result as diminishing returns, but a tad simpler.

No, that would be terrible.
Having monsters balanced around 50% but players still being able to reach 75% would be terrible, you could just reduce by half the elemental damage of some monsters, making facetanking much easier for people with the gear.

Plus flasks

Not any different to how some builds can currently facetank all physical damage due to unusually high amounts of armor/phys mitigation. In fact, that's kind of the whole point. But getting 50%+ resists would be something you'd have to work very hard for, at the expense of other things you could be doing.

Or it would just require you to have godlike gear.
By spending a lot of time playing the economy, you could get there quite quickly I believe.
the difference between 50 and 75 is just too big, its from simple to doubling the damage.
You would say that the damage is balanced 50%, but 60% is very hard to attain and 65% the realistic limit, it would be more agreeing with you,

We could see in this case some pieces of gear boosting the resistances unusually high ... at the cost of nerfing the damage ( heavy armors hinders a player, why not the same for some enchantment ? by that I don't mean lab ones of course ).

But you are right that some armour extremes are already being reached ... when no nullifier rare is around, that is.

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goetzjam wrote:

Ele weakness, specific curses from mobs\boxes, like flamibility as well. Keep in mind last I checked the ele weakness curse on you scaled with map tiers, white, yellow, red.

Players don't need to be rewarded extra for a stat they have an extreme amount of. You know what you need to get and getting anything beyond that is just suboptimal, you actually have a choice to get another suffix on various item or perhaps route your tree differently if you don't need the additional res.


You have literally no idea how difficult it would be to change the resistance system we see today, literally no idea.

They don't rebalance the entire game everytime they add an act, nor should they have to. They go thru various mechanics and interactions that needed change. They "rebalanced" leech in 2.0 as the larger mechanical change and I can say that, that was one of the easier ones they could have done, that being said it left various items worth far less in value and in usefulness, like the atziri belts for example.

Don't think for a second they will change the res system in PoE, that change is larger then anything else they have done and fundamentally changes so many more aspects of the game then you can imagine.

I didn't say it is easy or what. Surely is something that requires a lot of work. But it is not impossible, they could manage to do it, and maybe it is not so hard as you are trying to imply: we simply can't know anything about this. I just meant to say that it wouldn't be a stupid change, nor i see it a bad change. Giving more choices for building characters gives people the possibility to increase a lot the resistances instead of something else aside from auras or RotP/Saffel.

Right know the choice is "take the most resistance from rares to cap resist, coz uniques usually doesn't give anyone". Which is not a choice: it is something forced. And for builds who doesn't equip unique gear aside from weapon (pretty rare today probably), they can casually reach 200% for every res without any benefit, and maybe they can even have a 100% uptime of anticurse pot (not that this is rare).

There's so many passive points on res that are never picked up, because not in the way: completely optional. Why don't give a sense to those passive?
And you can't really "choose" suffix from gear. You know that very well. There are not so many suffix useful aside from resistance in a chest: the only thing that comes in my mind is stun recovery. But then you could be immune to stun, or having so much life that stun recovery becomes a pretty useless affix. Things changes when you are talking about rings/ammy: there is more suffix choices there.

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Serge91 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Ele weakness, specific curses from mobs\boxes, like flamibility as well. Keep in mind last I checked the ele weakness curse on you scaled with map tiers, white, yellow, red.

Players don't need to be rewarded extra for a stat they have an extreme amount of. You know what you need to get and getting anything beyond that is just suboptimal, you actually have a choice to get another suffix on various item or perhaps route your tree differently if you don't need the additional res.


You have literally no idea how difficult it would be to change the resistance system we see today, literally no idea.

They don't rebalance the entire game everytime they add an act, nor should they have to. They go thru various mechanics and interactions that needed change. They "rebalanced" leech in 2.0 as the larger mechanical change and I can say that, that was one of the easier ones they could have done, that being said it left various items worth far less in value and in usefulness, like the atziri belts for example.

Don't think for a second they will change the res system in PoE, that change is larger then anything else they have done and fundamentally changes so many more aspects of the game then you can imagine.

I didn't say it is easy or what. Surely is something that requires a lot of work. But it is not impossible, they could manage to do it, and maybe it is not so hard as you are trying to imply: we simply can't know anything about this. I just meant to say that it wouldn't be a stupid change, nor i see it a bad change. Giving more choices for building characters gives people the possibility to increase a lot the resistances instead of something else aside from auras or RotP/Saffel.

Right know the choice is "take the most resistance from rares to cap resist, coz uniques usually doesn't give anyone". Which is not a choice: it is something forced. And for builds who doesn't equip unique gear aside from weapon (pretty rare today probably), they can casually reach 200% for every res without any benefit, and maybe they can even have a 100% uptime of anticurse pot (not that this is rare).

There's so many passive points on res that are never picked up, because not in the way: completely optional. Why don't give a sense to those passive?
And you can't really "choose" suffix from gear. You know that very well. There are not so many suffix useful aside from resistance in a chest: the only thing that comes in my mind is stun recovery. But then you could be immune to stun, or having so much life that stun recovery becomes a pretty useless affix. Things changes when you are talking about rings/ammy: there is more suffix choices there.

You are just wrong man.

You can choose to put a different suffix when you master craft, instead of getting res you can get something else your build might need.

In terms of rare chest, they are pointless anyway, there is almost no reason to use a rare chest at all in this game. So not sure what your point is there.


It requires a complete rebalance of all unique items, all passive tree investment, bandit rewards, the amount of res that rolls on items, literally everything that has to do with res in the game will need to be touched.

Then there are things that you don't remember, like rare mob auras, because headhunter and inspired learning. Then things like guardian, because people that roll with guardians that can run every aura in the game, will be almost immortal due to having so much increased aura effectiveness and having all of the purities, including the regular one.

The game will have to be balanced for the most extreme of circumstances, so instead of assuming the average of the 75% capped it will almost certainly have to assume you are running at least the purity aura, on top of the res you get on gear\tree, otherwise the extremes would be far too much.

Specific res in the passive tree is worth it depending on your build, it allows you to focus more on damage uniques or grab an additional unqiue, but to think those wouldn't be nerfed if the whole res thing got remade is thinking incorrectly, like I said everything to do with res would change, including the value of the ones in the passive tree.

Not only that jewels that provide res would change, something that provides 10 all res now, might provide like 1 all res later, meaning that stat is stupid and pointless then.

The current system is fine, dimension returns is pointless in an ARPG game and is the wrong direction for this game. I doubt GGG would even attempt to try such system, but if they did I don't see how it wouldn't fail.

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goetzjam wrote:

Don't think for a second they will change the res system in PoE, that change is larger then anything else they have done and fundamentally changes so many more aspects of the game then you can imagine.

I think my original proposal has the numbers correctly tuned so that what you are talking about isnt necessarily true. It could be implemented with virtually no other changes and all would work very smooth.

As for some of the suggestions made by others, i would have to agree with your analysis though.

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mark1030 wrote:

I like the way it is. I don't want to feel obligated to get reissts on every piece of gear. Just getting which resists you need on a piece gives a lot more flexibility.

This. In D3 you have to get certain base affixes on your item or it's trash, and there's very little room for flexibility on your items. We need more options in this game, not less.

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SkyCore wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Don't think for a second they will change the res system in PoE, that change is larger then anything else they have done and fundamentally changes so many more aspects of the game then you can imagine.

I think my original proposal has the numbers correctly tuned so that what you are talking about isnt necessarily true. It could be implemented with virtually no other changes and all would work very smooth.

As for some of the suggestions made by others, i would have to agree with your analysis though.

What about Purity auras? They would have to be changed otherwise everyone with shit gear would be forced to run Purity of elements untill they get aura nodes on the tree or lvled enlighten then run all 3 puritys which would cover ALOT of resists leaving the rest to be made with gear. Thats what i see coming from such a change if everything else is left the same.. EVERYONE stacking all 3 purity auras on all builds then stacking whatever else you can on gear then go full DPS from there. Hell with all 3 purity auras then whats possible on gear we could basically make builds damn near immune to elemental then along with IC+End charges you could litteraly with the right class and tree make an immortal build...

Diminishing returns on resists imo isnt something that would work very well in POE.. Its either gonna make people with top notch gear even more tanky and possibly immortal and everyone else even more susceptible to death. Not without rebalancing resists across the board anyway. Tree, Auras, Gear, everything would have to have number tweeks depending on what kinda diminishing returns we are talking about.

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Demonoz wrote:

Diminishing returns on resists imo isnt something that would work very well in POE.. Its either gonna make people with top notch gear even more tanky and possibly immortal and everyone else even more susceptible to death. Not without rebalancing resists across the board anyway. Tree, Auras, Gear, everything would have to have number tweeks depending on what kinda diminishing returns we are talking about.

If the formula wasnt awesome, yeah i would agree with you. But the values i listed i think are spot on. It is literally impossible to get multiple resistance up over 80 with the limited gear slots we have now.

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SkyCore wrote:

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Demonoz wrote:

Diminishing returns on resists imo isnt something that would work very well in POE.. Its either gonna make people with top notch gear even more tanky and possibly immortal and everyone else even more susceptible to death. Not without rebalancing resists across the board anyway. Tree, Auras, Gear, everything would have to have number tweeks depending on what kinda diminishing returns we are talking about.

If the formula wasnt awesome, yeah i would agree with you. But the values i listed i think are spot on. It is literally impossible to get multiple resistance up over 80 with the limited gear slots we have now.

What?

All of my HC builds get overcapped for red map ele weakness, sc it doesn't matter as much but I do still aim to get that res, even if i have to use one less unique to do so.