In another thread, it was suggested to give players the option to make pre-level characters that start with lvl 60. Since this will probably not happen and that many people are not in favour for it (including myself), I think we should think about serious ways to improve the whole leveling experience without actually making it to easy for the player.
So here I present some suggestions of mine (maybe others have suggested it before):
1. More Acts:
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Yes, simply add more acts. If we had more acts, we could completely remove the normal and cruel difficulty. I imagine at least 6 acts and the last map in act 6 is lvl 67. This is the level where people can start visiting maps. The clear advantage of this approach would be, that you dont have to do the acts over and over again (3 times), which is kinda boring. The game wouldn't feel so repetitive then.
2.Faster Leveling:
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Make leveling faster, especially in high levels. Getting to lvl 75 is still OK, but after that it really gets slow, which is boring. The problem is in my opinion, that the level speed was balanced with very high clear speed in mind. People that use more defensive builds have nearly no chance at all to level up. Yes, it's possible, but playing 3 hours to make it from lvl 84 to 85 is kinda annoying and then I start to leave the characters alone and start something new. While in other MMORPGs there's no real reason to make 20 characters, in PoE players are motivated to make 20 if not 30 characters. So leveling in high level should be faster.
3. Low Level Maps:
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Another option would be to add maps that directly start from lvl 1, so you dont have to do the quests over and over again. And at certain levels you can get the quest rewards (only respec and passive skill points) without doing the quests. So players can completely focus on clearing maps without fiddling around with quests. This option is available for all characters as soon as you have completed the whole story (that includes killing the last story boss in highest difficulty). So this would work similiar to the trials (once done, you dont have to do it again).
4. Rewards for Low Level Areas:
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- You can earn a map piece after finishing an act (map piece is random)
- That means 4 map pieces per difficulty
- If you manage to finish a difficulty, you should have a complete set for one map
- There are 3 different treasure maps, depending on the difficulty
- Those treasure maps are not exactly hard to play (not much harder then other tier 1-3 maps)
Now lets explain what those maps do:
- Map from normal difficulty: 100% quantity, 500% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
- Map from cruel difficulty: 200% quantity, 750% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
- Map from merciless difficulty: 300% quantity, 1000% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
The reason behind this scaling is, that people shouldn't just farm normal difficulty for a great map and therefore cruel and merciless maps must be much better, so players invest the time to get these map pieces. The advantage of this would be, that the lvl 1-60 playthrough would bre rewarding, since these maps would have a VERY high chance for good drops. You could also sell the map pieces for good currency.
5. Better Rewards for Low Level Quests:
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Most quests just feel annoying. You either get a trash rare items which you will probably vendor or you get a skill gem you can buy from vendor anyway or you get respec points, which are not really needed if you know what you want to skill. Another thing is, the quests are just to easy. Why not tune them up a little bit? Make them challenging.
I think the best approach would be to add all 3 suggestions, since it would add a so much better leveling experience for everyone and would provide alternatives. You could do the acts (but then only once) or do the low level maps and thanks to the faster leveling, it won't feel boring and once you're level 90+ or lvl 100, people will probably start doing another character. Last edited by AceNightfire#0980 on Aug 4, 2016, 4:31:36 AM Last bumped on Jul 7, 2016, 12:41:51 PM
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Jul 4, 2016, 4:06:21 AM
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I can get behind any/all of these suggestions. I seem to recall that in a Chris Wilson interview with ZiggyD and another fellow that Chris mentioned something about maybe doing more acts and reducing the number of times that the acts are repeated. Which is very close to number 1. That is if I'm remembering this correctly.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Jul 4, 2016, 10:17:45 AM
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Anything that makes it so I don't have to play through two difficulties of non-content before the game actually begins is fine with me. There is a demographic of players out there that this game shits on: altoholics.
We don't care that much about end game. We don't play just one or two "mains." The enjoyment we get is in playing lots of characters to see what they can do, come up with interesting new builds, and ditch them for the next new thing.
That's simply too time consuming in the game's current form, and the leveling process itself doesn't even have any real value because the only worthwhile thing you can get from it is currency. Leveling uniques are a neat novelty, but useful uniques almost never drop during leveling. Let's not forget how hard they fucked this process over by overtuning Act 4 too. You have to reach Act 3 of the next difficulty before content catches up with Act 4 of the previous one. The flow of difficulty is just too stilted to enjoy going through all that shit three times for each character, for 30-50 characters.
That is not a fun kind of grind or repetition, and is the #1 reason why I tend to be very active in game during first 2-3 weeks of a season, get bored, play other games, and can't justify more support for this game than just tabs. I have no issue supporting good devs, but when the game gets boring in 2 weeks, it clearly doesn't offer enough for me to spend more. I've probably spent 5x as much on Warframe, 30x on LoL, 8x on DDO before it went to shit, and much more on many other games. Why? They understand this demographic.
This is simply why leveling sucks in PoE.
Tired of trolls? Ignore them.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168
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Posted byAlbinosaurus#7360on Jul 4, 2016, 5:30:49 PM
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AceNightfire wrote:
In another thread, it was suggested to give players the option to make pre-level characters that start with lvl 60. Since this will probably not happen and that many people are not in favour for it (including myself), I think we should think about serious ways to improve the whole leveling experience without actually making it to easy for the player.
So here I present some suggestions of mine (maybe others have suggested it before):
1. More Acts: Yes, simply add more acts. If we had more acts, we could completely remove the normal and cruel difficulty. I imagine at least 6 acts and the last map in act 6 is lvl 67. This is the level where people can start visiting maps. The clear advantage of this approach would be, that you dont have to do the acts over and over again (3 times), which is kinda boring. The game wouldn't feel so repetitive then.
2.Faster Leveling: Make leveling faster, especially in high levels. Getting to lvl 75 is still OK, but after that it really gets slow, which is boring. The problem is in my opinion, that the level speed was balanced with very high clear speed in mind. People that use more defensive builds have nearly no chance at all to level up. Yes, it's possible, but playing 3 hours to make it from lvl 84 to 85 is kinda annoying and then I start to leave the characters alone and start something new. While in other MMORPGs there's no real reason to make 20 characters, in PoE players are motivated to make 20 if not 30 characters. So leveling in high level should be faster.
3. Low Level Maps: Another option would be to add maps that directly start from lvl 1, so you dont have to do the quests over and over again. And at certain levels you can get the quest rewards (only respec and passive skill points) without doing the quests. So players can completely focus on clearing maps without fiddling around with quests. This option is available for all characters as soon as you have completed the whole story (that includes killing the last story boss in highest difficulty). So this would work similiar to the trials (once done, you dont have to do it again).
I think the best approach would be to add all 3 suggestions, since it would add a so much better leveling experience for everyone and would provide alternatives. You could do the acts (but then only once) or do the low level maps and thanks to the faster leveling, it won't feel boring and once you're level 90+ or lvl 100, people will probably start doing another character.
Agree with you and support your idea. +1
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Posted byTreeOfDead#4438on Jul 4, 2016, 5:34:30 PM
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Suggestion 3 really doesn't help anything if you still have to run through all the acts/quests to get access to the next difficulty. They would need to make access to difficulties based on character level instead.
Tired of trolls? Ignore them.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168 Last edited by Albinosaurus#7360 on Jul 4, 2016, 8:01:25 PM
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Posted byAlbinosaurus#7360on Jul 4, 2016, 8:01:09 PM
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I think you're spot on with point 2. They would probably have to nerf uber clear speed builds to be able to do this.
Last edited by GeorgAnatoly#4189 on Jul 4, 2016, 8:30:28 PM
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Posted byGeorgAnatoly#4189on Jul 4, 2016, 8:30:14 PM
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Albinosaurus wrote:
Suggestion 3 really doesn't help anything if you still have to run through all the acts/quests to get access to the next difficulty. They would need to make access to difficulties based on character level instead.
They could correlate player level to act accessibility.
So if player level was 40, player would have access to act 4, 50, access to act 1 cruel.
I think boss fights should still be something people do, perhaps unlock all the act WPS after you do the boss fight and unlock the WP before the boss fight when you reach the level threshold.
As for OP.
1) is going to happen over time, there really isn't a way to increase the speed of which this happens I think without sacrificing something in the process.
2) idk, leveling is pretty fast already, if you are experienced, it does slow down much faster then in the past, for example you used to be able to quickly level just speed running dried lake from whatever until 85, but its brutal to do the same now.
3) covered above
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
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Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Posted bygoetzjam#3084on Jul 4, 2016, 8:39:12 PM
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They could correlate player level to act accessibility.
So if player level was 40, player would have access to act 4, 50, access to act 1 cruel.
Yeah, this is close to what I had in mind.
As for the bosses, there's a lot of room to play around with this to make it a more interesting/rewarding experience than simply "go kill this fuck for access to next act/difficulty."
One idea--and I'm not saying it's the best/only one--would be to have you pick up keys during your leveling through maps. They would need to drop semi-frequently, though. Then use the keys to access the boss fight. Kill him and get some kind of guaranteed loot: Low level unique, a bunch of low to mid range currency, random % superior gems, etc. Something similar to the stuff you might expect in the better lockboxes. That can be tuned to whatever it needs to be to work properly and not be the absolute best farming method (it should be a good one, though), but there should be more than just a requirement to kill bosses; there should be motivation. To reduce the RNG of these keys, it would be prudent to let you "up" them by taking 3 Act 1 keys to make an Act 2 key, for example.
This would have the extra benefit of giving single target builds purpose: boss hunting/farming. Most of the game is all about aoe and clear speed, so it would be good to change this up a little. More options and whatnot.
Tired of trolls? Ignore them.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168
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Posted byAlbinosaurus#7360on Jul 4, 2016, 9:09:31 PM
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Albinosaurus wrote:
Suggestion 3 really doesn't help anything if you still have to run through all the acts/quests to get access to the next difficulty. They would need to make access to difficulties based on character level instead.
Lvl 1-40 Maps: Will be normal (0% resistances)
Lvl 41-60 Maps: Will be cruel (-20% resistances)
Lvl 61-XX Maps: Will be merciless (-60% resistances)
This way, it's no problem at all. This approach could also find it's way in suggestion 1: Act 1-2 are normal, Act 3-4 are cruel and act 5-6 are merciless. This way, you could easily combine suggestion 1 and 3. And combined with suggestion 2, the whole leveling experience would improve alot.
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goetzjam wrote:
2) idk, leveling is pretty fast already, if you are experienced, it does slow down much faster then in the past, for example you used to be able to quickly level just speed running dried lake from whatever until 85, but its brutal to do the same now.
Like I said above, the exp rate is designed with fast clear speed in mind. I get the feeling the devs think that a normal build needs 5 minutes to clear a map. But if you play a very defensive character, it can easily take 15 minutes. You can guess how long it then takes to level up.
Also, I just think in PoE the devs should allow faster leveling (eventually combined with greater risks at dying). In PoE it's all about creating new characters with new builds and have fun with them. So it doesn't hurt when they increase the level speed a little bit.
Last edited by AceNightfire#0980 on Jul 5, 2016, 2:21:13 AM
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Jul 5, 2016, 2:16:43 AM
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I added another suggestion that would reward a normal playthrough from lvl 1-70
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- You can earn a map piece after finishing an act (map piece is random)
- That means 4 map pieces per difficulty
- If you manage to finish a difficulty, you should have a complete set for one map
- There are 3 different treasure maps, depending on the difficulty
- Those treasure maps are not exactly hard to play (not much harder then other tier 1-3 maps)
Now lets explain what those maps do:
- Map from normal difficulty: 100% quantity, 500% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
- Map from cruel difficulty: 200% quantity, 750% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
- Map from merciless difficulty: 300% quantity, 1000% rarity, map size is twice as big as normal maps with twice as many enemies (especially, many magic/rare/unique monsters)
The reason behind this scaling is, that people shouldn't just farm normal difficulty for a great map and therefore the cruel and merciless maps must be much better, so players invest the time to get these map pieces. The advantage of this would be, that the lvl 1-60 playthrough would be rewarding, since these maps would have a VERY high chance for good drops. You could also sell the map pieces for good currency.
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Jul 7, 2016, 3:54:52 AM
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