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Shagsbeard wrote:
Far too much has been read into this one statement. Chris is a salesman. He's not bound by law to be 100% honest or truthful about his product. He can make statements that are hotly debated without having to back them up statistically.
In the end, it doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. He's putting out PoE and we can play it or not. Choose for yourself.
Its 2016, being honest with your costumers is a pretty important aspect
Chris has built his Legacy by being close and honest with the community. Somebody that has been such awesome with his community now blatantly bullshitting players about that aspect of the game is pretty much why some people are mad
ZiggyD is the Labyrinth of streamers, some like it, some dont, but GGG will make sure to push it down ur throat to make you like it
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Posted bySexcalibure#7575on May 30, 2016, 10:04:33 PMOn Probation
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IMSilver wrote:
In recent interviews and posts (and some older ones) of mostly Chris Wilson talking about their internal processes and discussions, he talks about how they have a large playerbase that doesn't post on forums or reddit or whereever... and this "silent majority" loves the new content and it's only the vocal minority that's speaking up...
this may be a fallacy for a number of reasons.
- There's no way to tell if a given player actually enjoys a given piece of content without directly asking that player via an interview or survery or similar means. They are called the "silent" majority for a reason. The only logical conclusion you can make is that the player is satisfied with the content to the point that he/she isn't at the point of posting negative feedback on the forums.
- Players that "enjoy" or "are happy" with the content shouldn't be treated as the same as players who are indifferent. The reason is because these two sets are fundamentally different in an evaluation of player feedback. let's say 90% of the playerbase is indifferent and 5% are happy. Is that worse feedback than if 90% of players are happy and 5% are indifferent? I think that you can objectively say that the second case is better feedback, because there is much more work that could be done to improve the content in the first case to make players more happy.
- active participation in content isn't an indication that players enjoy the content. Sure, if a player has run a piece of content a thousand times, a possible conclusion is that players loves that piece of content, but that's not necessarily true. It could just be that piece of content is the most efficient or compulsory and there's no alternative. For example the labyrynth... if you don't run that content, you won't get your ascendency class or good enchantment on your gear. Sure, lots of players are participating, but a lot may be hating the process.
- A "vocal minority" is different from the general consensus of the majority. The number people who post on forums, reddit, etc will always be a minority. But saying that vocal minority is wrong because of fact that it's a minority is incorrect... If you have the set of players who are unhappy with a piece of content and the set of players who post on forums, it's impossible to say the relation between these two sets without asking all the players their thoughts on the content. And It is also incorrect to say that the vocal minority can be treated as a statistical sample of the silent majority due to the assumptions that statistical analysis has on sets of data.
- There is poor communication between the "silent majority" and GGG. There arent any official mass player surverys (from what i've read), polls, or anything. So chris's statements such as "we have hundreds of thousands of players who really enjoy this content" is incorrect. All he can say is "we have hundreds of thousands of players who actively participate and don't complain"
TLDR: The silent majority may not be as happy as they appear to be even if theyre actively participating in content. There should be more surverys, polls, etc so GGG gets more feedback from this silent majority. Look at oldschool runescape for example. They have in game polls that a significant portion of players participate in.
He said " the invisible players " not " the silent majority " , just to be clear .
R.I.P 4.B.
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Posted bytryhardgg#7333on May 30, 2016, 10:05:04 PM
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Jonmcdonald wrote:
Even if only 30% of players liked the lab, it still shouldn't be removed.
2 posts off, can I still get a consolation prize?
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Posted byinnervation#4093on May 30, 2016, 10:05:58 PM
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Qiox wrote:
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Jonmcdonald wrote:
Even if only 30% of players liked the lab, it still shouldn't be removed.
This!
It matters not one bit how much of the OP is correct or not. There's far more than enough people who, at least, don't mind running Lab that there's no reason to make any significant changes.
You are mistaking 30% not liking and 30% hating
a company cannot have 30% of their costumers "hate" a feature
yet, most of those people who hate lab arent asking for it to be removed, they are asking for ascendency points and enchants to be moved out of it till lab is bearable
ZiggyD is the Labyrinth of streamers, some like it, some dont, but GGG will make sure to push it down ur throat to make you like it Last edited by Sexcalibure#7575 on May 30, 2016, 10:08:00 PM
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Posted bySexcalibure#7575on May 30, 2016, 10:06:49 PMOn Probation
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I dont blame him for putting it in positive light. Put yourself in his shoes. He spent real money and time getting it developed.
Git R Dun! Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on May 30, 2016, 10:37:11 PM
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Posted byAim_Deep#3474on May 30, 2016, 10:35:33 PM
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Chris has accesses to data about the game we do not. He could have important info about player activitys that we are simply not privy to.
Also now i have not commented on any lab threads yet cuz iv been away from the game and have yet to play the lab , however i have noticed 1 common thread among them all. You guys are saying the lab is not to bad HOWEVER grinding it or running it many many times sucks and is boring. Well if this is the case then probley only 10 % of players even get to a point whare that is a problem , as most players are not crazy face grinders who get many level 90's per ladder. People who want to gind for 4+ hours PER DAY of any content is a minority in PoE , or any video game for that matter .
Just a sec let me grab a beer...@#*@ Ok how did I die this time
Learn the rules, it's the only way to exploit them.
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Posted bySirSid#5235on May 30, 2016, 11:21:12 PM
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Jonmcdonald wrote:
Even if only 30% of players liked the lab, it still shouldn't be removed.
that's true, but not really the main point of my post... just that GGG doesn't appear to have a proper process in place to gather feedback from this silent majority or "invisible players" as chris would say.
Last edited by IMSilver#3016 on May 30, 2016, 11:41:19 PM
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Posted byIMSilver#3016on May 30, 2016, 11:39:31 PM
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SirSid wrote:
Chris has accesses to data about the game we do not. He could have important info about player activitys that we are simply not privy to.
Also now i have not commented on any lab threads yet cuz iv been away from the game and have yet to play the lab , however i have noticed 1 common thread among them all. You guys are saying the lab is not to bad HOWEVER grinding it or running it many many times sucks and is boring. Well if this is the case then probley only 10 % of players even get to a point whare that is a problem , as most players are not crazy face grinders who get many level 90's per ladder. People who want to gind for 4+ hours PER DAY of any content is a minority in PoE , or any video game for that matter .
The really crazy people are the ones who want extremely specific enchantments and refuse to try to trade for them.
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Posted byDrGoatMD#6732on May 30, 2016, 11:39:59 PM
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There we go again. To the ones able to think, small answer: this is the game, lab is part of it.
To those wanting to change the game completely to their tastes:
The game isn't the labyrinth, labyrinth is part of the game. You don't even have to do it.
BUT IT GATES MY ASCENDANCY POINTS, OMG.
Do it and get your points, since when it is impossible? You are trading your pride "in accepting that people don't like everything that they receive" for something that you want so badly.
I don't like the labyrinth, but i don't want it removed. It is perfect for the challenge vs reward concept, i can't see how would they make it hard enough to make me feel rewarded by completing it, even though by now it is too easy, disconnecting as i disconnect, lagging as i lag, i think it is easy, but still see some challenge in it.
[Offensive part]
I compare those posts to:
Mother: Here is your food, son, made with love.
Son: But i don't like eggplant.
Mother: right, son, eat the other parts you like, tomorrow mommy buy another vegetable, so you can enjoy all your food.
Son: I DON'T WANT TO FUCKING EAT IT, I WANT OTHER VEGETABLES NOW, I'M GONNA DIE STARVING NOW, YOU B***
Yes, you are that son.
tl;dr : To me you guys are spitting in your own food as if GGG was a very rich company that can change everything in one second because they must pleasure EVERYONE, EVERYTIME. Or are just spoiled to the point that can't accept a change and start spoiling a whole community.
There's even a concept that describes what those people are doing.
Sometimes...
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The answer you deserve: LOL, you bait well, dud. Gibe mor
Sometimes...
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