Transgender Bathrooms... Targets getting boycotted. (Your Opinions?)

"

Einkil wrote:

E: Here's an idea! Co-ed bathrooms. If you don't like it, hold it till you get home.

Honestly I think an argument could be made that co-ed bathrooms would be the safest option for everyone and it also eliminates the akwardness for a Father who has to take his daughter to a public restroom or visa versa.

when make believe scenarios are more important than actual events.

I really wish the ultra-conservatives would stop trying to save us from their imagined boogey men.

Then we could deal with actual events of wrong doing, and punish people for things they did not what we imagine they might do.

"

Dethklok wrote:

"

Einkil wrote:

E: Here's an idea! Co-ed bathrooms. If you don't like it, hold it till you get home.

Honestly I think an argument could be made that co-ed bathrooms would be the safest option for everyone and it also eliminates the akwardness for a Father who has to take his daughter to a public restroom or visa versa.

I don't have any facts to back it up, so it's just a theory, but I believe the same thing.

"

when make believe scenarios are more important than actual events.

I really wish the ultra-conservatives would stop trying to save us from their imagined boogey men.

Then we could deal with actual events of wrong doing, and punish people for things they did not what we imagine they might do.

This. Tells. Whole. Story.

It doesn't matter wherever they want to go to WC they can, not like anything has stopped trans-people doing it before now. It doesn't harm anyone and no one gets effected by it anyway, so why does it matter?

"

Jimmybizzle wrote:

It doesn't matter wherever they want to go to WC they can, not like anything has stopped trans-people doing it before now. It doesn't harm anyone and no one gets effected by it anyway, so why does it matter?

Because gay marriage is legal now. Gotta beat that next horse.

"

kolyaboo wrote:

"

when make believe scenarios are more important than actual events.

I really wish the ultra-conservatives would stop trying to save us from their imagined boogey men.

Then we could deal with actual events of wrong doing, and punish people for things they did not what we imagine they might do.

This. Tells. Whole. Story.

8 seconds on Google:

A man dressed as a woman was arrested in Virginia on Monday after police say he was caught peeping into restroom stalls three times in the past year.

Richard R****guez, 30, filmed a woman in a bathroom stall at the Potomac Mills Mall, Prince William County Police said on Tuesday. A 35-year-old woman was in the stall when she saw a bag moved toward her under the stall divider. Rodriguez apparently had been filming her, police said.

"Kindness, compassion, treating peopple the way you want to be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values." - says the level 3 sex offender convicted of rape and abuse of a child.

"Level 3 offenders have been determined to be at a high risk to reoffend and to pose a high degree of dangerousness to the public." - says the Mass excecutive office of public safety in their public listing of him as a sex offender.

....................

"Cross dressing child molester caught in women’s bathroom"
Richard R****dler, 60, of San Jose, a registered sex offender ...

A man dressed as a woman has been spotted peeping at females and photographing them in a UC Berkeley locker room....

...............

Ch****lun, 29, was found wearing women’s clothes and a surgical mask in the hospital toilet less than a year after being given a suspended sentence for dressing as a schoolgirl in a school canteen.”

“”I wanted to see women naked,” he was quoted as telling investigators. “Dressing up as a woman was a step to do that.”

......................

GREENSBURG, Pa. — “A 48-year-old man allegedly dressed as a woman and went into a girls’ locker room at Greensburg Salem High School, ”

...............

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. -” Purdue University police are
investigating a reported incident in which a man dressed as
a woman was seen taking photographs under the wall of a
women’s bathroom stall in Yue-Kong Pao Hall of Visual and
Performing Arts.

.............

MILWAUKIE, Ore. – A registered sex offender dressed up like a woman, went into a women’s locker room at a pool and talked with several children before being chased down by a good Samaritan, according to a Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office spokesman.

26-year-old T--- C--- and other adults were supervising kids on the field trip when he noticed B****n walk into the locker room. He said B****n was wearing a bikini at that point. He next saw B****n leave the men’s locker room dressed in men’s clothes.

According to the state sex offender registry, B***n was convicted in 1994 of sex abuse and was known to target girls between five and nine years old. The state lists him as a “predatory” sex offender.

...................

EVERETT, Wash. – A man wearing a bra and wig was arrested Friday after he was spotted in a women’s bathroom at Everett Community College, police said.

The man, later identified as T****** B*****, 18, of Lake Stevens, was placed under arrest.

He admitted to officers that he was the suspect in an earlier voyeurism incident at Everett Community College on Monday, police said.

In the earlier incident, he said he took a shower in the girls’ locker room for sexual gratification, acccording to the police report.”

.................

So "Imaginary"? Not by a long shot. Bathrooms need to be made more secure. I don't have the answer to how that should happen, but pretending the problem isn't real is enabling predators to gain even more access to their would be victims.

If the bathroom usage could be limited to those who truly did identify as women, and not straight men who were just pedophiles, it would solve most of the problem.

There are a lot of very naive people in this world. While it is acceptable to be optimistic about the unknown, when the public crime records show a problem, it shouldn't be ignored because it is politically incorrect.

Increasing bathroom /locker room safety wouldn't take away anyone's rights and it would help a lot of people. However, if someone's only concern is getting their way on this issue, than I have to wonder whether they are really concerned about anyone's "rights" or if they are only concerned about perceived "wrongs"

So the issue is already there, is there any proof that allowing transgender people to access the toilet of their choosing will increase the risk? Because you've only proved the fact that these people don't care about the conventions of gendered restrooms. They will do whatever they want.

In terms of making it more secure. How do you propose making it more secure, and how does denying transgendered individuals actually make it more secure? Again, these people don't care about the conventions in place, they will access those restrooms either way. The only way to prevent it is to have measures that require some kind of proof or validation.

TL;DR
These issues already exist, to imply that opening restrooms to TG people will increase risk is a fallacy.

"

Einkil wrote:

So the issue is already there, is there any proof that allowing transgender people to access the toilet of their choosing will increase the risk?

Yes, because in many of these cases, the offender was noticed because they weren't allowed to be there. When the offender is allowed to be there, it becomes much more difficult to get the offender out of there.

"

Einkil wrote:

In terms of making it more secure. How do you propose making it more secure,

Note, that I have specifically said, I don't have that answer. I do think the best answer to that will be determined by working with all the parties involved.

"

Einkil wrote:

and how does denying transgendered individuals actually make it more secure?

I didn't say they need to be denied. The fact that people are questioning who goes into the women's restroom already limits many would be perpetrators.

It doesn't STOP all such crimes, but it does DETER them. With less deterrence comes more crime.

"

Einkil wrote:

Again, these people don't care about the conventions in place,

Ask yourself why they just didn't walk into the women's restrooms dressed as a man to commit their crimes?

Because they cared about getting caught.

"

Einkil wrote:

they will access those restrooms either way.

Many more will be emboldened to do so, if no one can speak out against them. There is a similar effect around certain (non-related) crimes that already occurs and costs billions of dollars in losses.

"

Einkil wrote:

The only way to prevent it is to have measures that require some kind of proof or validation.

An ID card (registered with local municipality/state) that people had to swipe when entering restrooms that had their preferred gender (and recorded time and date at location for future crime investigation) could be one possible part of a solution.

"

Einkil wrote:

TL;DR
These issues already exist, to imply that opening restrooms to TG people will increase risk is a fallacy.

It is already happening. There were a few recent results that I expected to see in my one click Google search (because I had seen them in the news the last week) where the new sense of who can use the restroom was specifically cited as a casuative factor.

I feel confidant that most people can use Google at least semi-effectively. So, if they bother to search, they will find them.

My post was to show that such things are NOT imaginary. Pretending that criminals won't take advantage of new opportunities (and claiming it is a fallacy) is like pretending that transgender people won't be offended by told they can't use the restroom of their choice (and pretending that is a fallacy).

People believe a lot of nonsense because it FEELS GOOD to think that way. Google doesn't have any feelings. Google away, and don't blame Google for showing you things you don't want to see, know or believe.

The more and more I look into this the more I beleive unisex or gender neutral bathrooms are going to be the best solution. Some good stuff on this wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet

"

In the United Kingdom, All-Gender restrooms are sometimes found on university campuses. In early 2013, Brighton and Hove city council introduced unisex toilets, which did not feature the words 'men/gentlemen' or 'women/ladies' (as is traditional), but instead used 'universal symbols', which was described as 'political correctness' by the right-wing press in the UK.[1]

In April 2014, the Vancouver Park Board decided to install All-Gender restrooms in public buildings, with different signs to identify them.

According to Canadian Global News online newspaper, many different regions across Canada offer unisex toilets and other gender-neutral facilities, but Vancouver was the first municipality to change building codes to require unisex toilets be built in public buildings. This movement, according to commissioner Trevor Loke, was aimed to make everyone feel welcomed and included:

"

Recently, there has been a growing trend on college campuses in the US to establish All-Gender public restrooms. Many campuses are renaming existing restrooms and toilets in order to be more inclusive. According to a study by the University of Massachusetts, there are over 150 college campuses across the US that are creating gender-neutral restrooms. Safety concerns have prompted many colleges to take action to implement non-gendered bathrooms.[clarification needed] Activists, who are trying to get more gender-neutral restrooms on college campuses, hope that everyone, not just gendered individuals, can feel safe.[23][clarification needed]

Research by the University of Massachusetts comments on the need for gender neutral restrooms and the issue of safety. It says that certain people feel threatened using facilities that do not adhere to their gender identity, and this can become an issue when students are harassed by their peers. The University states that this is more of an issue in restrooms that are designated for male use than those that are designated for female use.[24]

"

According to a research article by Olga Gershenson of the University of Massachusetts Amherst, restrooms have always been an issue for one group or another. First, women around the world petitioned for the right to their own facilities; next were racial minorities in the US during the time of segregation. After this fight, people with disabilities raised the issue to get fully equipped facilities. That fight ended with changes to building codes to make washroom more accessible. Now the issue concerns transgender and other gender variant people.[25]