PoE 2 servers are restarting in: .
They should be back up in approximately .Blood Magic and Life Regen
"I really disagree with this. That's just how you built your character. With %Life Regen and Blood Magic you don't need to spend nearly as much on Life Leech/Life Gain/Health. Obviously, the more you have of each the better and all the more effective Blood Magic will be. Anyone can die even with the most OP builds if they're not careful. As long as the player pays attention, It's nearly impossible to die with a good Blood Magic setup. And a good Blood Magic build is very easy to do without sacrificing much of anything especially when utilizing %Life Regen. Right Now I'm using a Blood Rage frenzy charge Mara with Blood Magic. I have 0 points invested in %Life, Life Leech, Life Gain, Weapon Damage or Melee Damage. ALL my points are in %Life Regen, STR, DEX, Frenzy Charges, Pure Attack Speed, and Blood Magic. I'm lvl 45 at the end of Ruthless with about 850 Health, 60% Damage Reduction from gear alone and an average 1000 DPS, between all my skills, with just gear and frenzy passives. I have 90% Accuracy and I attack over 2 times per second with charges and attack for free. There is absolutely no skill cost. Now if I turn on Blood Rage, the degen is completely negated and I get 5% Life Leech for free. If I cast Warlord's Mark, I get another 5% Life Leech for free plus the added bonus of Endurance charges which add to my resistances(already about 25% each with gear alone) and brings me up to 70% Damage Reduction. People may say 'You're only on Ruthless, why don't you see how well that works in Chaos?'. I've been to Chaos many times on different characters, I'm aware of the difficulty spike. I know what works and what doesnt. By the time I get there on this Mara, I'll have more health, better gear, better skills, and more passives. I have plenty of time to build properly for when I get there. With 7.5% Life Regen per second and Blood Magic, I have a lot of room for error. I can make a bad build, but as long as I take Regen and Blood, it'll work. |
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So, OK, question:
Has anyone actually made a 1:1 comparison build with one using bloodmagic and the other not? Same life regen passives, same leach, etc. To conclusively establish that its Bloodmagic that makes the life/leach/regen stack overpowered and that the said attributes are not overpowered in and of themselves? Should be easy enough to test - respec the Blood Magic point. The hardest thing would be getting a new set of flasks (assuming you are using Sapping flasks) and a comparable item with mana leach instead of life leach. See, I have this very strong suspicion is that people are harping up at the wrong passive, Blood Magic gets nerfed, people still find out that are still immortal gods, that gets nerfed, and suddenly Blood Magic is now completely useless instead of being a niche passive point investment for two mana expenditure extremes. Last edited by konfeta#2391 on Jan 12, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
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You're absolutely right Konfeta. Most likely it's not Blood Magic that's the problem as a few have already stated. It wasn't much of a problem before the %Life Regen came into play.
What I'm trying to get as is a balance somewhere because %Life Regen tips the scales especially when used in conjunction with Blood Magic. Life Regen needs to be nerfed in some fashion as I already stated either by limiting it's availability/accessibility or by decreasing the % values. If that's unreasonable, then Blood Magic needs a negative effect added to compensate. People keep talking about Blood Magic specifically, while it is a problem in my opinion, it's not the biggest problem. |
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That was kinda my point, I honestly dont think BM is the problem. If you removed blood magic from these uber builds and forced them to spec a few points into mana and find a few decent pots would it impact their builds that much?? No, in fact they'd probably have even more survivability if they did it intelligently.
Where as take those same builds and drastically reduce their life regen/steal and they would be severely weakened, whether they had blood magic or not. IMO its the life gain abilities which need limiting or making more challenging to get in the tree. Also life gain mods on weapons need to be made rare imo, back in D2 which I think we'd all agree was fairly well balanced, life steal/gain mods on items where very rare, in POE currently they are common to the point where its hard not to have it in some form. |
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I think it's obvious that the problem is life regen.
Before the change, I was wondering why there weren't any +% life regen just like mana, because there were no way to make scale those flat life regen passive and mods into something useful at endgame. Now they turned these flat regen passives into %max life regen, which seems to be completely OP. Besides they also make the life regen mods useless, even more than before... There need to be a consistency between ressources. - There is a base mana regen based on max mana, not for life. - There are +% mana regen passives, not for life. - There are +%max life regen passives, not for mana (impossible to improve the base rate without increasing max mana. - There are flat life regen mods, not for mana - There are life on hit mods, not for mana. Why did they have to make things so complicated ? Why not making the two ressources work the same way, with the same passives and the same mods, and just balance by tweaking numbers ? Right now it's just too hard too balance because they are too much different. Maybe they did this to make balancing easier at the start, but I think it's not the right way. Moreover, it confuses players, people expect ressources presented in the way (in globes) to work similarly. Build of the week #2 : http://tinyurl.com/ce75gf4
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"The Diablo 3 devs made it a point to limit lifesteal skills and stats for precisely the reasons you describe. |
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zriL: Technically, those +% mana regeneration passives have the same scaling as +% total life regeneration - albeit with lower percentages per passive.
But there's a reason for having different mechanics between mana and life replenishment methods: running out of mana isn't as serious as running out of life, and losing mana (via spending it) happens more regularly than losing health. Mana on hit, if it were provided, is too easy to turn into self-sustaining skills (as the current commentary on blood magic suggests). Anyway, all that said, life regeneration passives could certainly stand to be lower, and perhaps measured in "per-minute" rather than "per second" to keep the units the same as the item mod's. The item mod, by the way, is arguably more intended for lower-life characters (where, naturally, the resulting percentage is higher). I have wandered through insanity;
I have walked the spiral out. Heard its twisted dreamed inanity In a whisper, in a shout. In the babbling cacophony The refrains are all the same: "[permutations of humanity] are unworthy of the name!" |
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I don't get this topic. I get the point you're all making about the life regen and life steal. Isn't it as simple as, if you don't like it because it makes your game too easy for you.... Don't take any points in it?
The skill tree is vast enough to go any other way, I think the game has its way to balance in environment first, I don't see a problem with the regens or mana conversion. Tbh, I don't think this is the problem that makes marauders and duellists "imba" They tend to come out stronger because the variety of skills and weapons they have and that most of the skill damage is added to the weapon damage. All melee chars accel at the game full melee templar is just as strong. It's the damage output they can produce that makes it "save" to go out there more than anything else. Also, same thing could be said for zoo-keepers. Walking meat shields to prevent any damage for the player, well most damage. How would you pose this vs life regen? |
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"Yes, and maybe we should just stick our heads in the sand the next time anything we object to happens. Ignoring problems fixes everything. |
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" I always maintained that Zombies are hideously and obscenely overpowered. They utterly trivialize the defensive play of Witches by herding up enemies in convenient kill zones while you just kill them with zero effort. Unfortunately, nerfing them before we get a proper summoner repertoire, new monster designs, and new monster AI is going to erase summoners, so it's not really an option at this point. Last edited by konfeta#2391 on Jan 13, 2012, 9:11:35 AM
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