Blood Magic and Life Regen
" Double mana cost :) Nah, still not enough |
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I don't think Blood Magic needs a nerf. I have played several melee and ranged physical damage dealers as well as aof builds and have zero issues with mana after early levels. When you refill your life and mana by attacking what is the point? There is no need to nerf a keystone that does not increase the power lvl of a character. Maybe if life/mana leach got nerfed Blood Magic + life regen might become more appealing. As is it seems like just a matter of convenience so you can just use one type of pot. Which most of my builds dont use pots at all, they just attack to refill life/mana.
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When you get a 5-linked armor for example you get into issues...then you have to decide for 1 attack that you want support 4 times...usually it should be your AoE-attack...then you would like to use you AoE-attack all the time because it most likely will equal or over the dps of your single attack...and I can hardly believe that you can support spamming your 5 linked attack w/o getting a bunch of items with manaleech/reg or just mana or passives for the same effect. With Blood Magic and Lifereg it's getting way easier to support that.
Last edited by Btah#4397 on Jan 12, 2012, 9:46:04 AM
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It might not be Blood Magic that needs a nerf. But the way it stands Blood Magic has absolutely no drawback, no negative aspect. It is far too easy to abuse with just life regen alone. Before we got the % Life Regen per Second nodes, Blood Magic was still pretty powerful, but it took a bit of work to offset skill costs. Now, it takes virtually no effort. A person with 2000hp and 7.5% Regen, generates 150hp per second. You can take a skill with 50 mana cost and attack 3 times in one second and not lose anything! Hell 800hp and 5% regen nets someone 40hp per second. My main dps skill has 3 supports on it and only costs 21 mana. I could attack twice per second and lose just 2hp!
Is mana regen that good? Or is it even worth it to invest in mana regen? You'll waste a hell of a lot of defense and dps trying to offset skill costs with mana. You don't have to sacrifice nearly as much with Blood Magic. In fact, you can even completely build around it and not sacrifice anything. Nothing! You can't build around mana regen and be just as effective. Blood Magic and % Life Regen per Second set it up so that flasks become almost completely unnecessary and the game turns into easy mode very early on. If the game becomes easy at lvl 80 because you've built one hell of a character, that's great! The game shouldn't be a breeze at lvl 30 or less. It's just wrong and something needs to be changed. "Exactly! With 2000hp and 7.5% Life Regen per second(both are not hard to get) you could cast a skill that costs 50 three times per second for free! Mana users gonna spend 150 mana per second for free? Not likely! Last edited by FaceLicker#6894 on Jan 12, 2012, 10:13:58 AM
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The changes to Life Regeneration were most likely made for all the other builds who complain about not having enough... Creating the side effect of Blood Magic becoming too good.
In my opinion, the people using life regeneration and life leech are going about it the wrong way. It's far easier to use gain life on hit. It shows up on items all the time, and the support is great. This stat is what makes Blood Magic overpowered, especially when using AoE. For example: Ground Slam (or Cleave if it's more your flavor) Added Fire Damage Melee Physical Damage Weapon Elemental Damage (optional, for certain builds) Life Gain on Hit +some life gain on hit items =free skills + extra life with no passive investment at all. Top it off with 5 life flasks and you're nearly invincible, even more so since you have those extra passives to put into defense or more damage. EDIT: I also agree that Blood Magic could use a trade-off. I think I mentioned it being too good on the alpha forum right when we got it (it was the first keystone I tried, and I loved it!). I think a possible trade-off could be a reduction in life gain rate from %regen, flasks, and on-hit. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus. First in the credits! Last edited by WhiteBoy#6717 on Jan 12, 2012, 10:18:32 AM
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"Life Gain is more versatile than Life Leech. That's not the point of this thread. You could use either with enough Life Regen and Blood Magic and be invincible. Personally, I use both. If I do 500 damage to 5 targets each with 10% Life Leech it's the same as 50 Life Gain per hit. I can get 10% Life Leech easily with only 2 skills however Life Gain requires more investment to get 50 per hit. It's actually wiser to use a combination of both rather than one or the other for melee. Blood Magic was very powerful before the % Life Regen. If you invested in enough Life Gain or Life Leech it was definitely worth your while. Life Regen exacerbates everything. It's a built in permanent flask. You don't have to do anything for it to be in effect whereas Leech and Life Gain you actually have to get your hands dirty. It oversimplifies the game. Last edited by FaceLicker#6894 on Jan 12, 2012, 10:30:06 AM
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"Exactly! With 2000hp and 7.5% Life Regen per second(both are not hard to get) you could cast a skill that costs 50 three times per second for free! Mana users gonna spend 150 mana per second for free? Not likely![/quote] Mana Leach / Pierce / Multiple Projectiles / Added Fire Damage / Frenzy Only have 2% mana leach outside the support gem and as long as there are groups to shoot at I dont use mana pots, and to counteract this I am constantly fighting big groups, but not much of a drawback. Think I am going to try out a Blood Magic build to see what they hype is about now with all this talk though. Have yet to try it due to it not being 'needed'. However if it allows me to replace mana leach gems with added chaos or something of the like it could be very worthwhile and I may have to agree with you guys after all. Last edited by thepmrc#0256 on Jan 12, 2012, 10:38:47 AM
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And now imagine your Mana Leech support would be a damage support (e.g. Elemental Weapon Damage for the Added Fire Damage) and the 2x 1% Mana Leech on gear would be 2x 5% Life Leech ;)
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i build a tank with blood magic, resolute, and i now tested it with 7 endu charges (most of the time played with 6 charges).
I still need my skills leeching/gaining life. and i think the price for these "survival"-build is high. my dmg is low and still i can die if im not careful. so, in my opinion blood magic isnt OP, because if choosing BM u need to concern about life reg/leech/gain, and so u need to hit the enemy for sure (which leads to resolute or acc/dex) these are all skill points less @ dmg-nodes. BM with 20% higher skill-costs would be ok though. excuse my english - i am from sauerkraut & bratwurst land ;)
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" Thing is I never run out of mana at all anyway, so while you may be right that it makes it easier you don't gain anything really. Melee skills especially are so cheap that just using 1 or 2 decent fast recovery pots and spending say 2 passives into INT means I am yet to enter a fight where I ran out of mana, and I spam the hell out of my skills, its rare I ever even use standard attacks. The problem isn't blood magic imo, but more that life (and mana) leeching is really WAY to easy to get hold of. Ive played loot games since the days of Diablo 1 right the way through to Sacred 2 and most recently torchlight, and this is so far the easiest game to get life stealing bar none. For instance in Sacred 2 life leeching weapons tended to be low powered, it was rare that life steeling spawned on extemely high damage weapons. To use a more sensible example in Diablo 2, it was quite rare to find extremely high damage weapons with life stealing, and you couldn't get it naturally as a melee character at all. That was until they created Shamans in LOD and they were beastly, they had so much life stealing it was almost impossible to die. Think of it, blood magic or no blood magic, if you regen 100s of points of health with each attack plus regen 140 naturally per second that makes you more or less unkillable except for massive damage spikes, whether you have blood magic is not relevant. IMHO life regen nodes should be all moved to the outer reaches of the strength side of the tree, that way duelists and templars can still pursue them, also the amount of those nodes should be massively reduced, so maybe in TOTAL on the whole tree you could get say 3% life regen and 3% leeching. Basically its to easy to survive atm life leeching/regen makes it very easy at times, but this is what beta is about after all. As an aside personally I think blood magic should be moved slightly further away from the melee classes to make it less viable unless your really determined to buy it. |
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