Bearers and Volatile Blood

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AttackDingo wrote:

back when reflect was actually dangerous?

Reflect was a filter. Nothing more. Less and less people would do damage themselves. Totems everywhere. No thank you. Also, indeed - HC and SC are two completely different games.

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AttackDingo wrote:

It's funny to find this thread when just yesterday a friend and I were talking about bearers and volatile blood being two of the only things left in the game that still pose a threat. Please do not nerf or change these.

I miss back in the early days of POE when you actually had to build a character that was well balanced in damage vs survivability. Remember - back when reflect was actually dangerous?

Its quite clear you haven't really read any part of the thread. I don't want them to be removed or nerfed out of relevance, but I play in HC and 1 shots from mechanics that offer little to no counter play isn't good game design.


You think my characters built in HC, that survive all other obstacles are too squshy or don't care about defense at all, please.


Bearers were only mentioned here because of the purposed suggested change, not that they specifically need changed (except graphical improvements to display it better)


Back in the early days, you mean when stacking defenses still didn't provide surviability or back when there were many more ways to layer defenses compared to now? Lets see you are talking about what the AA\MoM\max block, with acro era, when they also had ondars as well? Back when monster life and damage was scaled more appropriately for the defenses available. Back when you could get +10 max res from flask without investment, back when you could get +max res on passive tree?

Reflect is still absolutely dangerous to various builds, my wander for example uses:



Even then it won't necessarily prevent myself from getting 1 shot from reflect, especially if I ever encounter one in a -max, considering I play with a support (that runs damage auras for me)

You also need to remember people had higher raw life back then, had better leech back then too.


See if you had read even just the whole first post you would know that perhaps it was "more difficult back then" despite there actually being more defensive options back then that all stacked better. Not exactly sure if your memory is shit or if you think that reflect is the best thing ever and only really have that to chime in with.

You complain about things not posing a threat, but just play in SC, its almost like there is a league which you could play that is a bit more sketchy and isn't as forgiving.

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AttackDingo wrote:

It's funny to find this thread when just yesterday a friend and I were talking about bearers and volatile blood being two of the only things left in the game that still pose a threat. Please do not nerf or change these.

I miss back in the early days of POE when you actually had to build a character that was well balanced in damage vs survivability. Remember - back when reflect was actually dangerous?

Reflect want designed very well, but it was mostly the "immediate" part which was bad. Corrupting Blood is still around and that is good design (punishing high levels of Attack/Cast Speed). It is good design because it applies a Damage Over Time effect. This prevents it from every truly one-shotting characters. It is good design because you can achieve temporary immunity with flasks, so even if you have very high Attack or Cast Speed you can play around it.

That is the right way to design a damage reflect mechanic.

What I'd really like to see is a Nemesis mod which applies a non-stackable Ignite to players, and is larger based on Damage dealt. This would hit the builds least effected by Corrupting Blood hardest, and hit the builds most effected by Corrupting Blood least of all.

I don't think Reflected Damage should really be a map mod. Corrupted Blood probably should be, though.

Ok, let's summarize again:

1) Melee is one of the 2 main playstyles.

2) Melee is rediculously underpowered compared to all forms of ranged. Yeah, melee is now propably at it's best since 0.9-1.1, but this does not change this fact.

3) For people saying that it punishes stupid gameplay, last time i checked, the vast majority of builds that mindlessly kill(off-screen actually) mobs are ranged, not melee. For the most part melee has not even the capability of doing so.

4) It is by far the most dangerous mod in the game, in certain situations a guaranteed one shot, and it ONLY punishes melee.

5) It is 100% unavoidable, unless you carry a ranged skill with you, or a damage over time skill. It is basically impossible to deal with, when using one of the 2 main playstyles of this game, unless you carry a skill of the the other playstyle - How does that make sense?

6) Ranged which is also far more priviliged as a playstyle, does not have an equal situation to deal with. The only mod that "punishes" ranged is proximity shield, which has zero consequnces if you hit them from ranged. They just do not die.


Beareres are completely fine. Of course they are far more dangerous for melee players, as everything else in this game anyway, but you can avoid them pretty easily if you pay attention. Not the case with volatile. As i said in an earlier post, the only way to make it fair if they do not want to remove or adjust volatile, is to introduce a mod that does the same damage if you do not kill it from point blank melee range.

There is a difference between dying to a lack of skill and dying to a bullshit 1 shot mechanic (volatiles).

Atziri, Izaro, Dominus, Malachai can be beaten without getting hit once if you know what you are doing but they punish you severely if you fail to dodge or react slowly.
They present a skill challenge.

There is no challenge in killing a thing like a volatile devourer or a leaper or whatever in a time window of a second or two and getting blown to bits because RNG stacked damage modifiers on that monster.

They should either rework the mechanic or delay the damage over 2-3 seconds so there is a chance of reaction.

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StDrakeX wrote:

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kamil1210 wrote:

Solo play:
it is easy to avid these mods, gut gud.

I hope that's sarcasm cause that's almost as ridiculous as what Gary has said above...

I actually find ridiculous all these complaints, you die to those because you didnt pay attention --> you deserve to die, simple. Melee or not

Apart from Neon, find me another death to those which wasn't lack of attention.

Mind i died 1 time to bearers and one to volatiles, the first as melee the latter as ranged (lol) both because i didnt paid attention.

Also as melee: a cull ranged skill on swap or simply skip those that could oneshot you, simple

Suggestions:

For bearers: keep them as they are, they're fine

For Volatiles: mobs still deal a lower portion of damage as [Element] (say 33% of the actual one) which always chills/burns/shocks as the initial explosion; then the mob creates a fire/cold/lightning "storm call" skill which lasts 2 seconds under the killing player, which deals 125% of the actual volatile damage.

This would punish both melee and ranged.

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Gary_GGG wrote:

Personally I find them mostly a gear/build check for melee. They ensure you have close to max resistances, and a decent amount of life/energy shield. I rarely die to them unless I'm undercapped on resistances.

Gary, come map with me, I'll take you into core until we find a volatile blood mob so you can demonstrate how you pass this gear check. Then I'll post a video of you for sure not dying instantly so everyone here will quiet down about it.

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johnssec wrote:

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Gary_GGG wrote:

Personally I find them mostly a gear/build check for melee. They ensure you have close to max resistances, and a decent amount of life/energy shield. I rarely die to them unless I'm undercapped on resistances.

Gary, come map with me, I'll take you into core until we find a volatile blood mob so you can demonstrate how you pass this gear check. Then I'll post a video of you for sure not dying instantly so everyone here will quiet down about it.

Doesn't even have to be a T15, just do a springs or something with nem mods (so higher chance to run into it) leave it blue and I doubt most people could possibly live against it.

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Gary_GGG wrote:

Personally I find them mostly a gear/build check for melee. They ensure you have close to max resistances, and a decent amount of life/energy shield. I rarely die to them unless I'm undercapped on resistances.

What do you consider to be the equivalent gear/build check for ranged characters?

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suszterpatt wrote:

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Gary_GGG wrote:

Personally I find them mostly a gear/build check for melee. They ensure you have close to max resistances, and a decent amount of life/energy shield. I rarely die to them unless I'm undercapped on resistances.

What do you consider to be the equivalent gear/build check for ranged characters?

Reflect most likely. Lets be clear there doesn't need to be an equiv for ranged, because it just makes the whole situation fucked. I rather volatile be changed in a way that is still challenging but gives counter play other then kite kite and avoid, especially with most melee builds.