SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Mooginator wrote:

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I personally loathe doing Merc lab even more now because the fight lasts 2-3x as long.

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This thread will continue to grow until GGG does something about the real problem with the Lab (which is that it's a shitty/bad/rotten mechanic) and its requirement to secure ascendancy points.

Remember, folks. It took more than 4 years for them to fix Volatile (the #1 complained about insta-killing feature of the game). Keeping that in the game in its original form was such a special kind of stupid; players' heads still spin today as to why it took them so long to fix such an obvious design flaw.

The lab is the same way. When (I hope to god) it's truly "fixed" players will look back and say "it took them way too long to fix that shit that everyone knows was a problem."

I'd forgotten that the doubling of boss life would make merc lab more of a "trial." I like the Izaro fight, but too much of a good thing is definitely possible.

I agree with you that lab will be hated until it stops being a gate for ascendancy, at which point some will run it because they enjoy lab (there are some who do), while others ignore it. A key challenge with getting to that point is that, perhaps unlike volatiles, lab was the pet project of somebody high up in GGG that got pushed on players.

If you look beyond POE to see where are ARPGs in development headed, others seem to be aware that GGG screwed up with lab. You can find a kind of homage to the passive tree in Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem (but even more interesting, as it's a multi-tiered wheel with each tier able to spin, potentially making more builds possible). But I don't believe any other ARPG is copying lab, and so it seems likely to remain solely as GGG's odd little foray into gating character progression behind a platform mini-game.

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Mooginator wrote:

Remember, folks. It took more than 4 years for them to fix Volatile (the #1 complained about insta-killing feature of the game). Keeping that in the game in its original form was such a special kind of stupid; players' heads still spin today as to why it took them so long to fix such an obvious design flaw.

Also, keep in mind that very few players actually liked volatile blood as a mechanic. I'm tempted to say 'no players at all' but you never know, eh?

Lab is Cancer and its mechanics have no place in a ARPG. Especially Hardcore.

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MeechKahn wrote:

Lab is Cancer and its mechanics have no place in a ARPG. Especially Hardcore.

The "especially hardcore" sentiment seems to be an extremely common opinion among people that have stated they dislike labyrinth. I believe that there are multiple good reasons for that.

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Turtledove wrote:

The "especially hardcore" sentiment seems to be an extremely common opinion among people that have stated they dislike labyrinth. I believe that there are multiple good reasons for that.

Really, thought we went over that a few times already, there's nothing about it that is harder for hc than sc, it's the other way around because it removes the zerging option for sc. It's really no worse for hc than a10 kitava, you have to do it to start maps and there's a higher chance of dying in there.

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

The "especially hardcore" sentiment seems to be an extremely common opinion among people that have stated they dislike labyrinth. I believe that there are multiple good reasons for that.

Really, thought we went over that a few times already, there's nothing about it that is harder for hc than sc, it's the other way around because it removes the zerging option for sc. It's really no worse for hc than a10 kitava, you have to do it to start maps and there's a higher chance of dying in there.

Mario with one life is definitely not harder than mario with infinite lives. Definitely...

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

The "especially hardcore" sentiment seems to be an extremely common opinion among people that have stated they dislike labyrinth. I believe that there are multiple good reasons for that.

Really, thought we went over that a few times already, there's nothing about it that is harder for hc than sc, it's the other way around because it removes the zerging option for sc. It's really no worse for hc than a10 kitava, you have to do it to start maps and there's a higher chance of dying in there.

A lot more players would have done lab since 3.0 went live, some multiple times, than they have Kitava. As well, past associations with lab would arise again, but not for Kitava.

Also, Kitava as a gate for maps is a self solving problem. Either Kitava will be nerfed heavily or Kitava will not remain as the gate to maps. Otherwise, future league / season events that are so crucial to POE's revenue stream will struggle to attract new and (especially) existing players.

I really dislike the concept of gating vital build content behind puzzles that can easily wipe an HC character.

I do like the concept, but i feel like it would be better to put a giant treasure room at the end rather than slowly unlocking things absolutely vital to your character and build.

Dont get me wrong, when i first saw the content i did it and thought it was fun, not knowing what it was...and was super disappointed there was no direct loot reward, the second i looked up what i was doing i was very disappointed knowing that i now had to do those things for my build rather than weighing in if it was worth it for the loot or not.

GGG find a way to allow people to properly build their character skill without risking death or requiring content be done, it just doesnt fit with the games past methods of character progression which has always been a decision to do content for loot rewards while your character progressed without content gating it.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Mario with one life is definitely not harder than mario with infinite lives. Definitely...

With the whole point being that it's mario and not... bomberman.

Point being everything is easier when you are in softcore.

1. Infinite lives lets you trial and error the mario bullshit. Meanwhile if you only play hc you only get one take on the mario bullshit and if you make a misstep, it's game over. Regular content you can overlevel if inexperienced/insecure about succeeding. Mario bullshit not so much. Also, some trap rooms go on offscreen. Have fun dealing with that design when you only play hc.

2. Huge playerbase with almost infinite item upgrade possibilities, unless ssf. Makes it easier to gear towards any aspect of the game including labyrinth.

3. Having less life and more movement/attackspeed/castspeed like sc builds tend to have, makes lab easier because you heal more % on a flat life flask if you have less life and you move faster/ easier through the jumpy runny mario bullshity trappy gauntlets. I personaly removed my kaom's heart to easier refresh my hp pool while some 2k hp rats nest tabula rasa sc build probably healed 100% per flask use. Traps? What traps. Git gud hc wannabes. I pro. Mario pro.

And don't deny that lab isn't some mario off genre bullshit. Even the devs didn't deny this.


In short, mario bad. Not worthy of poe.