SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Nishrek wrote:

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raics wrote:

Do you normally play the game solo with support builds? A normal build + support would do the lab just as easy as two normal builds.

It is not the point.
We have all statements
* Lab is only challenging/noncasual content in PoE
* You have to earn your AP
* L2P, if lab is too difficult for you
* All builds can do it, so git gud

And now here is something like "support builds can't do lab, so it can't be solo-only challenge?"

WTF?

Where's the problem? All of the game content discriminates a solo support build, that's the way they roll, we can't ask the lab to be any different. It's like playing a 2H weapon build without a weapon.

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Nishrek wrote:

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raics wrote:

Do you normally play the game solo with support builds? A normal build + support would do the lab just as easy as two normal builds.

It is not the point.

It is the point
Try harder.

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Fruz wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

But make the traps not-retarded so all builds actually can do it with some patience and a bit of skill.

Good thing that it's already the case, and has always been.

Try harder.
And answer my lore question, will you?

I did.

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The_Reporter wrote:

These guys don't know what they're arguing for or against anymore. It's just trolling for the sake of trolling.

So, you're saying you play a support build solo? Must be some new beta-meta.

Though I'd wager on being able to do it solo with a support build if absolutely needed, and I'm not exactly a crack player, anyone could do it then.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Your wrong there is no change. There is nothing behind the door. The GGG lovers said, no proclaimed, no guaranteed there would NEVER be a change and pleaded with GGG to lock this thread to prevent the "Haters" from wasting their time posting here.

If you meant me by that, that is quite narrow-minded. I never pleaded to lock the thread in the first place, but I said I was considering it because it's nothing but a flame war. There is no discussion here, it's a cesspool of hate. Everyone is just here for their own personal gain, while none of us have anything to gain to begin with. It's pointless to have a list of lovers and haters of content that isn't our to change.

Now, like I said, if we would actually work TOGETHER to formulate a decent solution we can mostly get behind and bring that forward to the development team, I'm sure they'd at least consider it. That is not happening the way this thread is being abused right now.

The defenders are way too defensive and will not budge an inch and the offenders are "recruiting" left and right so desperately that every nonsense post like "lab sucks" gets voted onto their listings. The list sucks, there's my feedback. Get rid of it and be critical even to your peers who are complaining about the same thing. Realize that just an opinion isn't enough to fix something. Have a discussion like adults should, then maybe we'll get somewhere by page 700.

Change will come regardless. Now's our chance to have a say in how, together. So speak up, but also remember to listen.

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Xavathos wrote:

Now, like I said, if we would actually work TOGETHER to formulate a decent solution we can mostly get behind and bring that forward to the development team, I'm sure they'd at least consider it.

I do not know if you are joking here...
OP has many ideas. Better or worse ideas, but he at least makes an effort and shows why he thinks it should be changed.
Each and every idea is discarded. Every time answer is a variant of:
* Lab is good, as it is. Learn to play.
* You cant change X because of the lore.
* Everybody loves lab, only few people dislike it.

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Nishrek wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Now, like I said, if we would actually work TOGETHER to formulate a decent solution we can mostly get behind and bring that forward to the development team, I'm sure they'd at least consider it.

I do not know if you are joking here...
OP has many ideas. Better or worse ideas, but he at least makes an effort and shows why he thinks it should be changed.
Each and every idea is discarded. Every time answer is a variant of:
* Lab is good, as it is. Learn to play.
* You cant change X because of the lore.
* Everybody loves lab, only few people dislike it.

It's not the OP that I'm talking about though. Just that having a list is not the way. Everything else that I said is more about everyone else in this thread.

People call each other trolls, but we're all just trolling until we stop it and get something done. We've thrown enough mud to lay the foundation of a new continent, now let's found a city together.

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Xavathos wrote:

Spoiler

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Your wrong there is no change. There is nothing behind the door. The GGG lovers said, no proclaimed, no guaranteed there would NEVER be a change and pleaded with GGG to lock this thread to prevent the "Haters" from wasting their time posting here.

If you meant me by that, that is quite narrow-minded. I never pleaded to lock the thread in the first place, but I said I was considering it because it's nothing but a flame war. There is no discussion here, it's a cesspool of hate. Everyone is just here for their own personal gain, while none of us have anything to gain to begin with. It's pointless to have a list of lovers and haters of content that isn't our to change.

Now, like I said, if we would actually work TOGETHER to formulate a decent solution we can mostly get behind and bring that forward to the development team, I'm sure they'd at least consider it. That is not happening the way this thread is being abused right now.

The defenders are way too defensive and will not budge an inch and the offenders are "recruiting" left and right so desperately that every nonsense post like "lab sucks" gets voted onto their listings. The list sucks, there's my feedback. Get rid of it and be critical even to your peers who are complaining about the same thing. Realize that just an opinion isn't enough to fix something. Have a discussion like adults should, then maybe we'll get somewhere by page 700.

Change will come regardless. Now's our chance to have a say in how, together. So speak up, but also remember to listen.

Good post.

The problem, as I see it, is all these "my way or the highway" arguments. No room for compromises, so to speak. And as long as there's no room for compromises, there's no room for a debate.

My "handicap" in this debate isn't that I'm not willing to compromise, but;

I view myself as a fairly empathic person. But if we see through the Ascendancy Points, enchantments and the direct rewards you get from running the lab, I struggle very hard to see how people can actually like the gameplay, the content, the design in the lab. How they can have fun from A to B in the lab. I'm fairly sure that some "pro lab" people in here, don't find the lab "that" fun, but are just OK with "enduring" because of the rewards.

And I'm totally OK with having to "earn" my points doing challenging content. But challenging content can be fun and interesting, and in my eyes, the lab fails hard at that. And that's one of the keys here; if they change it by removing some traps, it's still the same content, only less challenging. And "less challenging" isn't what I want. Interesting, fun and challenging. So those three elements should be directing GGG in the choices they make to the lab/AP.