SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Actually, you can't know that for sure.
Since it does not exist.



I guess underlining and adding almost two lines wasn't even enough lol.

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Xavathos wrote:

I felt real shitty after those analogies, Fruz. :(

I thought they were a boring and bland representation of what a thread should look like. Hopping like a frog from one bad analogy to the next while dodging insulting remarks to get to the mandatory point at the end of the pages. When they misquote you, you don't even get the points, you have to start all over again! Such bad design, something should be done about this!

hahaha

"

Fruz wrote:

Actually, you can't know that for sure.
Since it does not exist.

I guess underlining and adding almost two lines wasn't even there lol.

The experience of running lab would change as the difficulty slider was shifted up or down. But, that would fix nothing that makes me hate running lab. Ergo, I would still hate running lab.

Try a cooking experiment to see this a bit better. Let's recruit Mr. Smith as a taste tester. He hates onions, black pepper, and liver. Make 100 different dishes that lean heavily on these three ingredients. Ask Mr. Smith to eat all of them, with the intention of asking him how many dishes he liked.

Assuming Mr. Smith didn't leave the room long before the experiment ended, which he almost certainly would have done, Mr. Smith probably wouldn't have a very favorable response.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

I'd still hate lab no matter what the damage was from Izaro and traps. Full stop.

Fair enough. But that's just you, I listed a few examples from PoE where trivializing questionable game elements efficiently stifled complaints.

Well, there's admittedly another factor at work there besides the element objectively being less of a problem. Players are reluctant to complain about something truly trivial even if they don't like it much because it seems a bit lame.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

I felt real shitty after those analogies, Fruz. :(

I thought they were a boring and bland representation of what a thread should look like. Hopping like a frog from one bad analogy to the next while dodging insulting remarks to get to the mandatory point at the end of the pages. When they misquote you, you don't even get the points, you have to start all over again! Such bad design, something should be done about this!

hahaha

They may have nerfed Ignite, but Burn still works like a charm. ;)

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Actually, you can't know that for sure.
Since it does not exist.

I guess underlining and adding almost two lines wasn't even there lol.

The experience of running lab would change as the difficulty slider was shifted up or down. But, that would fix nothing that makes me hate running lab. Ergo, I would still hate running lab.

Try a cooking experiment to see this a bit better. Let's recruit Mr. Smith as a taste tester. He hates onions, black pepper, and liver. Make 100 different dishes that lean heavily on these three ingredients. Ask Mr. Smith to eat all of them, with the intention of asking him how many dishes he liked.

Assuming Mr. Smith didn't leave the room long before the experiment ended, which he almost certainly would have done, Mr. Smith probably wouldn't have a very favorable response.

Actually, that analogy is very wrong in many ways :
- Some dishes can taste really different with some common ingredient, and not just a pinch of it.
- Trying to make somebody eats 100 dishes in a row to see if he will like at least one is incredibly stupid, for obvious reasons ( that I am not going to mention here ), and is not relevant with the topic here.

And :
"Actually, you can't know that for sure.
Since it does not exist."

Gameplay and difficulty are related notions.
The gameplay does somewhat change with the difficulty.

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raics wrote:

Well, there's admittedly another factor at work there besides the element objectively being less of a problem. Players are reluctant to complain about something truly trivial even if they don't like it much because it seems a bit lame.

You think that it's only about looking lame ?
I think that some ( actually I do think - most ) would just not bother ( assuming that it isn't very time consuming of course ).

"

raics wrote:

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

I'd still hate lab no matter what the damage was from Izaro and traps. Full stop.

Fair enough. But that's just you, I listed a few examples from PoE where trivializing questionable game elements efficiently stifled complaints.

Well, there's admittedly another factor at work there besides the element objectively being less of a problem. Players are reluctant to complain about something truly trivial even if they don't like it much because it seems a bit lame.

Nobody who likes games expects to be on the edge of their seat with excitement every second they're gaming. That's not realistic and it would be exhausting if it was realistic. So, if discomfort falls to a certain level, then many are likely to think "the good outweighs the bad here" and let an issue drop.

Also, difficulty has many causes, not all of which are seen in the same light. For example, one shot character kills from off screen are widely disliked. Some boss fights are visual shitstorms that take place in a small space, which doesn't appeal to everybody.

You're also moving into the question "What kind of challenges do people like?", which is usually closely connected to the genre of the games you choose play. This is a big part of why moving across genres in a single game can be risky, doubly so if you haven't been clear with your players ahead of time about where a game's development is headed (that applies in this case).

Finally, the "you're a unique flower" argument seems out of place because there is a very large number of people saying they dislike or hate all or part of what makes me hate labyrinth.

Fruz. I've yet to see a dumber way of discussing a topic and expressing personal POV.

[Removed by Support]

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torturo wrote:

Fruz. I've yet to see a dumber way of discussing a topic and expressing personal POV.

[Removed by Support]

I guess I could have had a good example if I would have came here earlier maybe, idk :)

I just took some time and read through some of the pages in this thread, and I must say; "jeeze".

Almost the majority of the "counters" to the people disliking the lab, falls into the "I know better how YOU feel than you do yourself. If not, you are lying"-category. It makes we want to ask the following question:

"How's it looking up there, on your high horse?"

Especially one of the people in here, calls people liars as soon as he runs out of arguments. But he isn't the only one. It's kind of sad to read, and makes me understand why some are being provoked.

But I have a couple of questions for the defenders/likers/lovers/tolerators of the lab:

What is it about the lab that makes YOU spend 500 pages+ defending it? What is it about the lab that is so important to keep? Why would a challenging alternative to the lab be so freakin' bad for the game?

"

Phrazz wrote:

I just took some time and read through some of the pages in this thread, and I must say; "jeeze".

Almost the majority of the "counters" to the people disliking the lab, falls into the "I know better how YOU feel than you do yourself. If not, you are lying"-category. It makes we want to ask the following question:

"How's it looking up there, on your high horse?"

Especially one of the people in here, calls people liars as soon as he runs out of arguments. But he isn't the only one. It's kind of sad to read, and makes me understand why some are being provoked.

But I have a couple of questions for the defenders/likers/lovers/tolerators of the lab:

What is it about the lab that makes YOU spend 500 pages+ defending it? What is it about the lab that is so important to keep? Why would a challenging alternative to the lab be so freakin' bad for the game?

You misunderstand, young padawan. This thread isn't really about the Lab.

This thread (IMO, so hold your fire) is trying to undermine the developer's freedom to do as they please in their vision. They do so by playing the feedback card very fondly, but have you noticed that none of them actually play the game? Why would you quit the game over the Lab if that represents less than a percentage of your game time?

It's not the Lab we're defending at all. It's the game and the course of the near future. I think the team at GGG may have caught on to this as well, which explains their reluctance to respond here.

They're trying to slowly push player voting for content and changes into the spectrum when it clearly isn't supposed to be that way. Terms like "donating" are plenty in the earlier pages of this novel, to be used as ammo for the entitlement gun.

I'm convinced that had this been just a thread of constructive feedback concerning the Lab, it would have been reviewed and either dismissed or taken to heart officially by now, as they have done in the past.

Of course, that's just a theory....