SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Many games of certain genres have this artificial longevity and use various tricks to achieve it. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as developers don't overuse it.

But with lab it's just partially the case. People just use to over complicate things at times and imagination is needlessly working.

Lab was simply a giant mistake, a poorly thought out decision. But it cost a crapton of human hours and NZ $. And now the creators are in a desperate attempt to defend it, otherwise one or many should commit the failure and it hurts. Investors won't be happy as well, yes?

Trading? It's crap, design wise stuck in the 90s, because it makes game challenging and all?
Shocking news - it's just about $$$, ladies and gentlemen.

Think, people. Just fucking think. With Okam's razor in mind. And that there's always money involved.

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torturo wrote:

So now we are up to the thesis that creating conceptually flawed, poorly implemented, tedious, boring, annoying, and even frustrating content and events, is supposed to be good for the game because it will make players occupied and prolong the game life?

That's desperate.

That's an opinion.

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The_Reporter wrote:

Why wouldn't I know what educate means?

Probably because you would not be using it incorrectly otherwise.

And people are aware of your "pattern" by now.

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torturo wrote:

Lab was simply a giant mistake, a poorly thought out decision. But it cost a crapton of human hours and NZ $. And now the creators are in a desperate attempt to defend it, otherwise one or many should commit the failure and it hurts. Investors won't be happy as well, yes?

Actually, I don't see GGG defending the lab AT ALL. I do, together with some others who want the game's future in the hands of its creator. They don't even need to defend it, really.

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torturo wrote:

But with lab it's just partially the case. People just use to over complicate things at times and imagination is needlessly working.

You hopped on the end of the train there so I suppose it's fine. I wasn't even trying to make a point related to the thread with this, just mentioned it as a theory and discussing general game design with gibb.

If you check out the lower one in my signature you'd see that the game has tons of extremely tedious stuff later on. It's possible to remove pretty much all of the tedium, however, none of that is really required to finish the game, it just makes it easier. One other thing it does is give you something to occupy yourself if you don't feel like finishing the game right away or if you're a completitionist so I left most of it as is, toning down just the most unreasonable stuff.

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Xavathos wrote:

Actually, I don't see GGG defending the lab AT ALL.

Of course you don't see ggg defending lab, because you see what you wanna see, but not the sheer reality.
Eventually, try to make the corelation between the passionate statement about the "minorities" (already a meme, lol), the lack of any reworks, and the thick silence over the issue along with the massive lab shitstorm which is already a norm.

Oh, and while ggg of course are supposed to take their own business and game design plans as a priority, neglecting the player base (the hand that feeds) is both arrogant and a market mistake.
Such an approach reminds me of a company which starts with "B" that turned from a beloved one to hated by many.
Overconfidence, arrogance, and pride, are always bad advisors.

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torturo wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Actually, I don't see GGG defending the lab AT ALL.

Of course you don't see ggg defending lab, because you see what you wanna see, but not the sheer reality.
Eventually, try to make the corelation between the passionate statement about the "minorities" (already a meme, lol), the lack of any reworks, and the thick silence over the issue along with the massive lab shitstorm which is already a norm.

Oh, and while ggg of course are supposed to take their own business and game design plans as a priority, neglecting the player base (the hand that feeds) is both arrogant and a market mistake.
Such an approach reminds me of a company which starts with "B" that turned from a beloved one to hated by many.
Overconfidence, arrogance, and pride, are always bad advisors.

Strong words. What exactly does all this have to do with the topic though? Lab won't make or break the game and you're talking about GGG and their future as a whole.

I just don't want them to give in to demands from people who want to cheat or have things handed to them. Let this one game remain unforgiving and cruel, please. We have a market filled with casual games already. Thousands upon thousands of them, including those created by the B word.

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Xavathos wrote:

We have a market filled with casual games already. Thousands upon thousands of them, including those created by the B word.

Gotta add, games with the indie moniker bear a certain rugged charm, it's good when a game is polished but I feel something is lacking when it's too polished, like the recent titles from "B".

Case in point, anyone played The Last Remnant? They really patched up the game for the PC version (one of the best ports I ever had the chance to play, by the way) and it had a feature you could enable in the ini file that allowed you to change the weapons of your units. However, just changing them won't work because you also need to force a unit to change its weapon upgrade path or it will revert on first upgrade, and that can be tricky. I just loved the whole micromanagement coming with trying to force your team into using the gear you want them to instead of those they want, I'd say it was exactly because it was ghetto as hell.

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Xavathos wrote:

I just don't want them to give in to demands from people who want to cheat or have things handed to them.

I guess not many want it this way and developers shouldn't listen to them, agree.
But it's obvious there's an issue and doing nothing isn't a solution.

two ideas on the go, related to the title:

1. A significant rework. Make lab a roguelike dungeon with rewarding dangerous enemies/encounters spread all around (Argus like), death rooms, puzzles, and just some trap gauntlets here and there for the spice.
It's the costly approach, but it's the one to make the lab more of an aRPG event.

2. Implement optional ways to ascend out of the lab. Like, once you have the trials player got the opportunity to fight an empowered version of Izaro (one fight). Partying disabled, Izaro drops no keys and there are no chests.
It's the cheaper approach with minimum investments. It will still allow those who like lab to run it as is, for greater rewards.

Just raw thoughts, examples. My point is, that doing notning when you have to take an action is nothing but counterproductive. It's just stupid.

Also fix shitty nodes around scion starting area. Every other class has better power spike nodes.