SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Nishrek wrote:

You had to play some different lab... Density is low as hell, not only compared to maps like Atoll or Strand, but it is crap overall

I think there were some user tests somewhere, first area in merci lab has pretty solid xp/h. Although, no idea why should lab have to compete with best xp farming areas in the game, wouldn't give it good density myself, it can't have everything.

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raics wrote:

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Nishrek wrote:

You had to play some different lab... Density is low as hell, not only compared to maps like Atoll or Strand, but it is crap overall

I think there were some user tests somewhere, first area in merci lab has pretty solid xp/h. Although, no idea why should lab have to compete with best xp farming areas in the game, wouldn't give it good density myself, it can't have everything.

Right, it has plenty on its own. But nope these guys want to just get the power with no work, I say no work no power!

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Fruz wrote:

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torturo wrote:

What I really don't understand is why there weren't any deep, significant reworks, while it's obvious there's a problem. Arrogance? Pride? Ignorance? Would be good to know.

You mean, you haven't considered that what you said right before was wrong ( not saying that everybody likes it at all, of course ) ?
Plus they don't need to have a majority loving the lab.

Is there a majority of players liking the Malachai fight ?
I surely don't think so.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

How more casual can it be than pay 2-4C and avoid it. The fact is even if you can avoid it by cheating it's still bad ARPG content and should be optional, if in the game at all.

By that logic, the whole ocntent is "bad ARPG content".
What are you doing here ?

PS : being "I am angry[...]I am madder" about a video game is a clear sign of troubles from your end.

I have never used the word angry. I am not angry actually I am enjoying this .... discourse.

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Phrazz wrote:

This whole discussion about "what the lab is" and "what the lab isn't" is starting to get old.

Fact: A LOT (no, I didn't say majority) of players find the lab tremendously boring.

Several trials in normal, several trials in cruel and a couple of trials in merciless - on top of that, you have the labs themselves AND the grind for all uber lab trials. We're not talking about "a small part of the game" anymore. We're talking on one of the biggest parts. At the end, you spend more time in the lab (trials and labs) than any other part of the game, besides end game grinding.

So the question becomes: Why are GGG so hellbent on keeping the lab such a big part of the game, when so many players clearly find it so damn boring?

You find it fun? Good for you, no one is stopping you from running it. No one is suggesting to remove it for you. I don't even think there's many players suggesting to remove the loot or the enchantments either. Yet so many people in here (and GGG) are so hellbent on the idea that everyone NEEDS to force themselves through each freakin' lab and trials. It's almost like they believe that an alternative would ruin the game - or their own enjoyment of the lab. The logic is silly. At best.

There was a poster in here before who implied he had contact with GGG and that they invested heavily in resources AND story lore and implied that is why we are having it non optional.

Of course he could be lying but it passed the smell test.

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Fruz wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Several trials in normal, several trials in cruel and a couple of trials in merciless - on top of that, you have the labs themselves AND the grind for all uber lab trials. We're not talking about "a small part of the game" anymore.

Yes we are, a veeery small part :

Trials are only needed once per league.
Uber trials are named, you can just do only 6 of them if you just want the ascendancy ( and you can buy more offerings if you fail at it, although if you fail you might need more practice that the trials can offer. )
There is no "grind" for Uber trials, you only need to do 6 of them, period.

There are just the labs remaining, basically. the rest is pretty much negligible.


PS : Boring is usually associated with something that takes time.
Good/quick players needing less than 10 mins, and okayish ones less than 20 or 15 if they rush, that can hardly be considered "boring", unless the player isn't actually good at the lab and is spending much more time in it.
In which case, it's basically a difficulty issue.

You did 4 lab and all the trials in 10 minutes?

Man, I salute you.
I will never be that good.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Several trials in normal, several trials in cruel and a couple of trials in merciless - on top of that, you have the labs themselves AND the grind for all uber lab trials. We're not talking about "a small part of the game" anymore.

Yes we are, a veeery small part :

Trials are only needed once per league.
Uber trials are named, you can just do only 6 of them if you just want the ascendancy ( and you can buy more offerings if you fail at it, although if you fail you might need more practice that the trials can offer. )
There is no "grind" for Uber trials, you only need to do 6 of them, period.

There are just the labs remaining, basically. the rest is pretty much negligible.


PS : Boring is usually associated with something that takes time.
Good/quick players needing less than 10 mins, and okayish ones less than 20 or 15 if they rush, that can hardly be considered "boring", unless the player isn't actually good at the lab and is spending much more time in it.
In which case, it's basically a difficulty issue.

You did 4 lab and all the trials in 10 minutes?

Man, I salute you.
I will never be that good.

Perhaps part of the reason that the pro-lab people always seem to grossly underestimate the time for this has to do with the old adage about time flies when you're having fun versus time crawling when you are playing a game that should be fun but is not fun. This of course assumes that they aren't lying when they claim they like lab. (The last sentence is meant to be poking fun at pro-lab people like Sidtherat that refuses to believe we tell the truth about how we feel about lab.)

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Phrazz wrote:

- What do YOU feel the game has to loose on giving players an alternative way to earn ascendancy points?

Giving in to casual players who want everything handed to them on a silver platter is VERY bad for the game, indeed. It's one step away from PoE and one big leap toward D3. No thank you.

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Phrazz wrote:

- What do YOU have to loose?

Nothing. It's not about me.

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Phrazz wrote:

- What is the lab offering, that is so important to keep?

A unique challenge, a trial with one time massive rewards and a way to grind for more power through enchants. The lab, unlike maps, isn't about currency, it's about skill and risk vs reward management.
It must be a challenge if so many people hate it. If anything, it means it's a huge success.

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Phrazz wrote:

- Would YOU run the lab for pure enjoyment, if there wasn't any rewards you couldn't get from elsewhere in the game?

Would you drive a car if it had no fuel? That's basically what you're asking here. Such a biased, obvious question doesn't deserve an answer.

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Phrazz wrote:

[...]

Hint : Read all the words.
"Boring is usually associated with something that takes time."
If something does not take a time laps that is at least somewhat significant, no one bother to call it boring, as it basically isn't.
It's like "tedious", it's clearly associated with time.

If it would take you less than 10 mins per lab, you would not care.
But it does not, because maybe you're not as good as you think you are but ... you don't want to face the facts.

Now about your quesions (been answered many times btw ) :
- No actual new appealing content if GGG waste much time/resources on that stupid crusade here = less players. Watering down the content and giving up to QQ => PoE becomes a bit more of Path of CandyCrush

- See 1, this question is so stupid actually to be honest.

- Lab is interesting, it gives something more to the progression, and it gates a huge power boost. Plus it's consistent with its lore and the game.

- Maybe, but that question is plain stupid at this point, absolutely nobody would run a content that gives 0 reward, this is just a fallacious question at this point, from someone that does not have actual arguments.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

I have never used the word angry. I am not angry actually I am enjoying this .... discourse.

You previous post, literally :

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Zalhan2 wrote:

But that's cool because I have having fun even when going backwards. LAB I win I am angry, I lose I am more angry. I get fat loot I am madder because I am rewarded for not having fun.

But I know that you are purely trolling anyway, the part about : "4 labs in 10 mins" is pathetic at best otherwise.

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Xavathos wrote:

Giving in to casual players who want everything handed to them on a silver platter [/b]

For Gods sake, I give up. It's impossible to debate something in here when people Can't/refuses to read. No one (not me, at least) talks about "giving/handing it". Point to where I said so, or stop using this as an argument, please.

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Fruz wrote:

If it would take you less than 10 mins per lab, you would not care.

Again, YOU are trying to tell ME what I would and wouldn't do. You have no clue. For your information, my fastest lab run is about 6:10. And I still care, because that's 6 boring minutes, that could have been spent on something fun/interesting. You say you find the lab interesting - a lot of us don't. See the difference here? No? Ok.

And again, you - just like the other guy I quoted, the minute someone asks for an ALTERNATIVE, you start comparing this unknown alternative (an alternative I haven't proposed yet) to D3 or Candycrush or whatever, thinking every alternative would be "watering down" the game. I don't want easier. I want an alternative. See the difference here? No? Ok.

I love this game. But the thought of doing each trial and each lab every single league/character (the labs at least) takes away almost all enjoyment out of starting a new league. THIS IS the case for A LOT of players. Why then, is the lab so "good for the game"? And I'm talking about "for the game", not "for the hardest of hard core players".

And now, they remove the three difficulties, because it was their goal all along. No more repetition of the same content. But the lab remains the same? The lab you have to "endure" four times? Even tho there's no normal, cruel or merciless anymore? Logic? Not much.

I used to be on your side. I think I've even made arguments FOR the lab in this thread. But I grew sick and tired of it. It's like a thorn in my side every time I start over. If GGG added something you plain out HATED, and found totally uninteresting, wouldn't you advocate for an alternative?