Is there anything in this grindy game that cant be described like this?
You're missing the distinction I described when I called the Lab "top-heavy" (everything after was just explaining what I meant by that term). Or ignoring it. I don't know which. I guess I really don't care. :P
Grinding =/= skipping. Speed =/= skipping. Until you grasp that, nothing I have said will make sense to you.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Last edited by gibbousmoon on Oct 6, 2016, 11:15:56 AM
Guys, i found out how the idea of the labyrinth was conceived...
Did you remember all the desync problems back in the day? It was really hard to handle all the complains, so GGG had to get outside help in order to fix it. Gamers as they were, in order to fix desink, they called de only plumber they knew... Mario.
Mario, as an italian plumber, barely understood what GGG wanted to fix. All he could reply was "It's ah me Mario!". After several hours of debate, he just said "Here we go!" and went on a magical journey to fix desync. Barely knowing the lands, he struggled in order to finish his herculean feat. The nightmare was watching...
Right after he managed to find and fix de sink, wraeclast's corruption got to him and transformed him into Pizzaro. At first he was just a round pizza full of bile and rot. GGG were so happy that Mario fixed de sink, but they couldn't find him nowhere to congratulate him. Afterall he was just a disgusting pizza now.
After evolving for several months, the formless pizza took a terrifying man-shaped skeletal form. Mario wasn't Mario anymore, he was the Lord Pizzaro. Influenced by the nightmare, he made the most disgusting thing Wraeclast had ever seen. A mansion filled with traps. The nightmare saw the troubles the poor italian plumber had to go through in order to defeat his arch-nemesis Bowser and made sure to implement every single trap it could find from Mario's memory.
When GGG discovered that Mario had been corrupted and invaded Wraeclast in the form of Pizzaro, they were left speechless. Trying to avoid a lawsuit, all they could do was corrupt Pizzaro even more, so that people would not be able to see that a corrupted Mario was pulling the strings. They removed the p and z from Pizzaro's name and sent a wraeclastian ghost to make sure that he doesn't spit fireballs from his mouth, like Bowser did. Instead, the ghost would create the illusion that the fireballs came from its ethereal substance.
And thus Izaro and the Mansi-labyrinth was born.
Now their only hope was in the blindness of their whiteknights. Let's hope they live up to their expectations.
This is about the new ghostbusters level of funny.
Nothing else in the game gives you so much power for relatively a small investment (Uber is harder, but also not really needed). By this reasoning, Lab should be made more difficult, not easier or be removed.
Wow, that's some twisted logic! Create a problem by stacking ridiculous levels of reward behind horrible content, so people are forced to play through it. Solve the problem of the resulting mismatch between reward and difficulty by making that content harder but just as horrible. :)
"
(unless you remove Ascendancy expansion too)
Ascendancy plus the Lab requirement for ACs made PoE worse not better. Removing the Ascendancy expansion completely would be an improvement. (Though I'd also have no problem with just removing ACs all together and leaving the Lab in as optional content for those who enjoy it.)
Nothing else in the game gives you so much power for relatively a small investment (Uber is harder, but also not really needed). By this reasoning, Lab should be made more difficult, not easier or be removed.
Wow, that's some twisted logic! Create a problem by stacking ridiculous levels of reward behind horrible content, so people are forced to play through it. Solve the problem of the resulting mismatch between reward and difficulty by making that content harder but just as horrible. :)
"
(unless you remove Ascendancy expansion too)
Ascendancy plus the Lab requirement for ACs made PoE worse not better. Removing the Ascendancy expansion completely would be an improvement. (Though I'd also have no problem with just removing ACs all together and leaving the Lab in as optional content for those who enjoy it.)
One thing I find funny about people complaining about AC or the lab that it makes the game worst are the ones that likely benefit the most from the additional power.
Wow, that's some twisted logic! Create a problem by stacking ridiculous levels of reward behind horrible content, so people are forced to play through it. Solve the problem of the resulting mismatch between reward and difficulty by making that content harder but just as horrible. :)
Yes, compared to other sources of power (high levels, high maps, 6-links...) the Lab is too easy for the power it offers. If you think the Lab is horrible and "can't" invest 1 hour to get 6 points, then just skip it. You don't actually need to ascend, to play the game even at high-end (tho it sure helps). I think that getting to lvl 100 is horrible, so I don't do it.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
If you hate lab then you dont like poe design in general. This game is supposed to be about loot, and getting the loot you need to overcome a challenge. If that challenge is lab and you cant or refuse to beat it then you shouldnt be playing an rpg.
Sorry Jgizle, you are really losing it here. Get a taste of reality. You are making ridiculous claims of what I and others like and don't like! What has happened to you? You didn't used to do this kind of silly stuff? PoE game play is the best of any game I've ever played. I mean the kill monsters and collect loot part of the PoE game play. ARPG game play in general is kill monsters and get loot not dodge screens full of traps but PoE does ARPG game play the best, in my opinion. Trap game play in labyrinth is horrible and I hate it. It is not ARPG game play. It is not really difficult, it is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun. I can do it without problems except for boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun reasons.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
One thing I find funny about people complaining about AC or the lab that it makes the game worst are the ones that likely benefit the most from the additional power.
Just to be clear that I understand your point: you're saying that people who complain about the lab mostly suck at playing PoE, so they're the ones who could benefit the most from getting ascendancy points to make the game easier. Is that right?
If you hate lab then you dont like poe design in general. This game is supposed to be about loot, and getting the loot you need to overcome a challenge. If that challenge is lab and you cant or refuse to beat it then you shouldnt be playing an rpg.
Sorry Jgizle, you are really losing it here. Get a taste of reality. You are making ridiculous claims of what I and others like and don't like! What has happened to you? You didn't used to do this kind of silly stuff? PoE game play is the best of any game I've ever played. I mean the kill monsters and collect loot part of the PoE game play. ARPG game play in general is kill monsters and get loot not dodge screens full of traps but PoE does ARPG game play the best, in my opinion. Trap game play in labyrinth is horrible and I hate it. It is not ARPG game play. It is not really difficult, it is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun. I can do it without problems except for boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun reasons.
So the devs decided that traps were fun for most people. they even integrated them into the core game. Sorry you don't like them.....it is what it is...take a hike.
If you hate lab then you dont like poe design in general. This game is supposed to be about loot, and getting the loot you need to overcome a challenge. If that challenge is lab and you cant or refuse to beat it then you shouldnt be playing an rpg.
Sorry Jgizle, you are really losing it here. Get a taste of reality. You are making ridiculous claims of what I and others like and don't like! What has happened to you? You didn't used to do this kind of silly stuff? PoE game play is the best of any game I've ever played. I mean the kill monsters and collect loot part of the PoE game play. ARPG game play in general is kill monsters and get loot not dodge screens full of traps but PoE does ARPG game play the best, in my opinion. Trap game play in labyrinth is horrible and I hate it. It is not ARPG game play. It is not really difficult, it is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun. I can do it without problems except for boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun reasons.
This is where you are wrong mate. I know what rpgs are, ive been playing them for 20+ years. What you are saying is traps are not an rpg mechanic, and that is wrong. Just to name a few Dungeons & Dragons and Neverwinter have traps in their gameplay. In those games though only rogue like classes could disable traps, so you had to either take the trap hits or you had to get a rogue to disable it. Mind you those games dont have infinite refilling flasks like in POE. Even Everquest had traps as well.
Mind you there are many more, but these are just examples. Traps are core to what an rpg is. Not all rpgs have them so you may not have seen it, but they are out there.
People always describe traps in lab as being a "screen full". In reality though those screen full of traps go off in a simple rotation and 90% of the time are only spike traps. As long as you time yourself correctly you literally avoid every single trap.
So you are anti trap because it slows you down what 10 seconds....
Not all rpg mechanics are meant to be fun, some are meant to pose a challenge to change how we play. You are lucky that in POE you can actually see all the traps, other games are less forgiving and have hidden traps that you dont see unless your class can sense them.
When I say "if you dont like Lab you dont like POEs core design" i mean it. POE is an rpg, and traps are an rpg mechanic in many games throughout history. That tells me you are not actually an rpg fan or you would have known this to be a core part of the rpg experience.
Maybe they could remove some traps, but they should never remove them entirely.
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