My review after year break and why I will be leaving again.

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grepman wrote:

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kcstar wrote:

the efficency itself is the meta, not the people who figures out the best way :X
... and what is efficent is set in stone by GGG, and changes with every balance change.

sure, but you're acting like you HAVE to play the most efficient thing. you do not.

This is a really poor point imo. Many recent design changes promote a reckless playstyle. Just look at all the on kill effects from ascendancy that are about to come.

On top of that, mobs with interesting design get nerfed, like devourers so that nothing may stop your killing spree. Nothing but minor things that are hard to notice at times and happen very rarely.

Again, bearers are not really a problem for me. My MP strategy against that is a well attuned party with teamspeak. I just agree with the general point that the only real dangerous things besides some mapbosses are mostly cheap.

A better way to handle difficulty would be e.g. "damn, mob x spawns in this map. Pretty nasty together with mod y and z. I'll have to play more carefully and tactical in this one". I know those situations already exist here and there but you should get my point.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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kcstar wrote:

the efficency itself is the meta, not the people who figures out the best way :X
... and what is efficent is set in stone by GGG, and changes with every balance change.

sure, but you're acting like you HAVE to play the most efficient thing. you do not.

This is a really poor point imo. Many recent design changes promote a reckless playstyle. Just look at all the on kill effects from ascendancy that are about to come.

I actually addressed this in this thread I believe. I said its a bad look imo, but its not implemented yet- the ONLY two features (aside from ladders where efficiency = ALL) that shamelessly promoted killspeed were rampage(retired) and ascendancy subclasses (not yet implemented)

aside from that, I dont think its a 'poor point'. vaal spark and frostblades have very different map clear speed but I can play through the game just fine with frostblades, enjoy it and a lot of times do harder maps than vaal spark (especially undergeared versions). the problem imo is because of social aspects, people watch other people do millions of deeps and get jelly...that or they seem themselves lagging behind in a group...which has nothing to do with lack of tools, but everything with peer pressure/plain jealousy

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On top of that, mobs with interesting design get nerfed, like devourers so that nothing may stop your killing spree. Nothing but minor things that are hard to notice at times and happen very rarely.

Again, bearers are not really a problem for me. My MP strategy against that is a well attuned party with teamspeak. I just agree with the general point that the only real dangerous things besides some mapbosses are mostly cheap.

A better way to handle difficulty would be e.g. "damn, mob x spawns in this map. Pretty nasty together with mod y and z. I'll have to play more carefully and tactical in this one". I know those situations already exist here and there but you should get my point.

I agree with the first two points, I do think that there were unnecessary nerfs

the problem is that 'cheap' things are the only things that can kill us at this point, arent they? most things are one-shot and have no time to sustain damage us.

plus things are always binary in poe with logout/instapots/portals available. bearers should never be a problem. just like you dont want get hit by a touch of god/vaal smash that are telegraphed, bearers are telegraphed. now volatiles for melee builds ? I agree, bad design.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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kcstar wrote:

the efficency itself is the meta, not the people who figures out the best way :X
... and what is efficent is set in stone by GGG, and changes with every balance change.

sure, but you're acting like you HAVE to play the most efficient thing. you do not.

This is a really poor point imo. Many recent design changes promote a reckless playstyle.

Wait wait wait.

Personal accountability and accepting your choices the the consequences thereof is a poor point?

I love how not a single person that's try to defend the whine has not addressed this point.

All these pages, all the posts, not a single "Yes I choose that".

"GGG encourages it" "The meta forces it" "GGG sets efficiency in stone" (that one is so laughable as to be unreal, how many times is GGG surprised by what the playerbase does).

Stop focusing on others and focus on yourself.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

Guess I'm just lucky that I move before it hits me or I have enough effective hitpoints it doesn't kill me. I don't think I've been killed by something offscreen in at least a couple years. Are you sure "game is shit" or maybe it's "build/playstyle is shit"?

Died with 5.4k hp. So you are not lucky, nor my build/playstye is shit, my "dear" GGG lawyer ;) And, that like this or not, game is shit. The more you will try to defend this shit of a game, the more i will bring you examples of one shots. I say that this "game" with me is not convenient for a lawyer like you, so is up to you to decide if continue or not, if you want "save the reputation" to this game :P

How can you say I'm not lucky? Either I'm lucky or I'm good. If this shit mechanic is unavoidable, those are the only two choices.

If a game requires more luck than "goodness" (sorry for english), is SHIT

And this game requires A LOT of luck, if "you" are wandering even with caution in (example) phantasmagoria map, and all of a sudden, light speed, from off screen, comes a barrage of "lasers" so powerful that melt a player in an instant. There are A LOT of threads about Thraxia, and a lot for all the other examples i have "stored" in my mind to prove that this game is shit. But all un-good players, right? ;)

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Wispo wrote:

If a game requires more luck than "goodness" (sorry for english), is SHIT

And this game requires A LOT of luck, if "you" are wandering even with caution in (example) phantasmagoria map, and all of a sudden, light speed, from off screen, comes a barrage of "lasers" so powerful that melt a player in an instant. There are A LOT of threads about Thraxia, and a lot for all the other examples i have "stored" in my mind to prove that this game is shit. But all un-good players, right? ;)

So a boss you know is there hits with an attack you know is coming and mechanics you know about and understand is your example of unavoidable? And you die to this and there was nothing you could about it? Oh, I see. Definitely because the game is shit and not because you were not smart enough to not approach a boss you know kicks the ass of the build you are playing.

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Archwizard wrote:

Wait wait wait.

Personal accountability and accepting your choices the the consequences thereof is a poor point?

I love how not a single person that's try to defend the whine has not addressed this point.

All these pages, all the posts, not a single "Yes I choose that".

"GGG encourages it" "The meta forces it" "GGG sets efficiency in stone" (that one is so laughable as to be unreal, how many times is GGG surprised by what the playerbase does).

Stop focusing on others and focus on yourself.

My last try:

Ofc I choose my playstyle. I just feel that the game wants me to play recklessly and does many things to promote that.

@grepman: Great post! I'd sign most of it.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

If a game requires more luck than "goodness" (sorry for english), is SHIT

And this game requires A LOT of luck, if "you" are wandering even with caution in (example) phantasmagoria map, and all of a sudden, light speed, from off screen, comes a barrage of "lasers" so powerful that melt a player in an instant. There are A LOT of threads about Thraxia, and a lot for all the other examples i have "stored" in my mind to prove that this game is shit. But all un-good players, right? ;)

So a boss you know is there hits with an attack you know is coming and mechanics you know about and understand is your example of unavoidable? And you die to this and there was nothing you could about it? Oh, I see. Definitely because the game is shit and not because you were not smart enough to not approach a boss you know kicks the ass of the build you are playing.

Approach a boss that you DON'T KNOW where exactly is, because she sees you FROM OFF SCREEN, and in a map wich "layer" changes every time? C moooooon ;) EDIT, forgot: "kicks ass to my build"? XD Those projectiles are lightning damage, but i go around with 84% lightning res all the time. So, as you can see, in this shit of a game even going into fight with decent pre-built defenses doesn't work (expecially in lightning case, that if hits you with its upper scale damage, you are f.cked) /EDIT

And let's hear the defense of yourself against this "episode" happened to me. Dried lake, all screen already destroyed, lvl 84 witch with 4.2 hp + LEGACY LIGHTNING COIL + 84% lighning res between purity and Agnerod staff (=even more physical reduction) + lvl 19 chaos golem (=the same exile i am talking about "above"!!!). Hear a tormented spirit for half a second. In the next second, a super speeded up rare "bird" comes .... guess what? FROM OFF SCREEN!!!! One shotting me. Not the time even to exercise a pressure on the flask button (obviously "seething"), with the finger ALWAYS already "in touch" with the "1" key eh? But even a seething flask doesn't work when you have been one shotted... when you are already worm's feed. Ok, let's hear the defense now.... (this is only one of at least 15 episodes i can tell)

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Boem wrote:

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johnce6 wrote:

See how unreasonable your reasoning is? I just find that type of game play style NOT FUN. It is not practical and therefore not 'hardcore', but bad game design.

Did you just state that cruising true a map while disregarding all monster mods on auto-pilot is hardcore?

Oh man, people and gaming these days.

Peace,

-Boem-

ROFL very good one , so true :D

I'm far from being a hardcore player, or even a skilled softcore player; but I do know that in this game you cannot defend against everything. You will be weak against something. You will have your Achiless' Heel. You can cruise blind-folded through a map, only to die by a monkey. You can peel your eyes for every danger on screen, only to blink at the wrong moment and an explosion is too close to avoid.

Some mobs also become nemesis for a particular players. I, for one, have never died from dogs, dischargers are another story altogeter. I absolutely hate dischargers.

For me, this is a great design. No two players have the same weakness. Not even two characters in a player's roster have similar weakness.

You. Will. Die. That is the core design of this game. We just do our best not to die too often.

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astralgazer wrote:

I'm far from being a hardcore player, or even a skilled softcore player; but I do know that in this game you cannot defend against everything. You will be weak against something. You will have your Achiless' Heel. You can cruise blind-folded through a map, only to die by a monkey. You can peel your eyes for every danger on screen, only to blink at the wrong moment and an explosion is too close to avoid.

Some mobs also become nemesis for a particular players. I, for one, have never died from dogs, dischargers are another story altogeter. I absolutely hate dischargers.

For me, this is a great design. No two players have the same weakness. Not even two characters in a player's roster have similar weakness.

You. Will. Die. That is the core design of this game. We just do our best not to die too often.

Even in titan quest "you will die". But there you die FAIR, so no offscreen one shots, no invisible one shots, no un-telegraphed one shots, no light-speed one shots. And, most importantly, apart for ONE and OPTIONAL boss (that with the right gear loses its one shot ability too!!), no one shots at all