Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@MatrixFactor:

Going from 2t1 to 3t1 to 4t1 is all fully protected under the master meta-mod system. So getting 4 perfect affixes, a master-crafted affix of your choice, and a random yolo Exalt affix is actually more doable now than it was pre-masters, when Eternal Orbs still dropped.

Is that seriously not good enough for you?

Past that, it's difficult. As it should be.

Regarding Divines, the stress on Exalts caused by the master-crafting system is currently extreme, and deserves toning down.

Toning down exalts by making master crafting meta mods cost less is not that answer. Don't tell me divines are rarer, even if they are they still cost less then exalts.

While we are at it, lets take all the meta mods they already reduced in price and reduce them even further, for fun, because you know no eternals, lets add back in the hybrid mod as well.

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grant_m wrote:

A better solution? Remove the meta mods as well.

Introduce meta mod crafting orb, like 3-5 times rarer then exalts?

I agree with everything OP said. Right now you can't really craft anything good unless you super-yolo stuff and that's just not fun and not even smart... GGG, please consider this! Thanks.

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grant_m wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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grant_m wrote:

A better solution? Remove the meta mods as well.

Introduce meta mod crafting orb, like 3-5 times rarer then exalts?

I'm not certain about that. It would just end up being the same thing, only rather than buying from a bench, you'd buy from a player.

Except it removes the need for the exalt itself and allows for some less tension on an already stressed orb.

The Great Misconceptions from the crowd that thinks getting rares will be too easy with eternals:

First as as side thing, there is a misconception that crafting with meta mods is somewhat more doable than with eternal crafting. This is not the case, unless i'm obviously missing some crafting method that isn't locking mods and scouring. Assuming chances for affix = 1/50, it will always always be easier going 1/50 one at a time than stacking a 1/50*1/50 (getting two right back to back), especially when the crafting attempts are almost just as expensive for both types of attempts.

Honestly i wish all those who talk about the dreams and how the neverending grind must be there, would just stick their nose back into their own business. Those people are never in that game, they are not motivated by it in the same way and after changes we would make they would still have their perpetual grind, they just try to destroy a part of the game they don't play for, not even understanding that we are not going to destroy their dreams, in fact most of the time the very same players would have a better experience if we had it our way, they simply just don't understand what we are getting at - we live for this and have put a hundredfold the thoughts into it than they have because that is what we are all about - and we intend to seek a balance that is just right for those who live for perfecting characters - meaning you that do not have the same desire to reach that will not be as motivated and therefore will not be driven to compete on the same level so you will always have the experience you crave(never getting close enough to the goal to be satisfied).


How mirrors poison the game:


These mirrors are freaking nasty, they are the real bane of allowing top 15% quality rare items to be within reach by other means than mirroring. It is extremely basic really. The cost to create becomes so high, that there is little point in creating new items once a mirror item has been created, and to fund it becomes nothing short of a nightmare.

Because mirrors do this, they destroy ALL item variety in far endgame perm leagues. The same item, same name, same exact stat will stay op top forever. If there are no mirrors, this item can only be used for 1 person at a time. There are thousands of people who want end items = tons of different ranges of items will be created and used, different names, different stats, etc.

Mirrors are the worst thing in poe. I don't give a shit how much they like it, it is plague. I would dare claim that most mirrors are also rmt'd, if not directly then the currency to buy it. I have personally seen botter forums of them saying they farm usually like 1 mirror per week over their all accounts, etc. And i know the people and their methods, i see so many people whom i know did not earn their gear due their playstyle having one or several mirrored items etc. I know this is rmt, and i even know people who told me it was from rmt. It really feeds into rmt and while some people do earn theirs honestly, this rmt feeding happens to also destroy endgame crafting because there is no point, and there also is no endgame crafting at all without eternals, there is only dumb luck.

Also even further, it is extremely likely that the big crafters have underground rmt connections in order to acquire so many eternals. I know some of the old crafters who said it doesn't make sense to get the amount of eternals they do, they can sit in trade 24/7 for a week, slightly over-paying all other offers in trade, and get pretty much no responses in that time, while some of the big dogs pump out one mirror item after the other, each requiring a ton of eternals. Also the fact that they are able to take mirror fees make it possible for them to invest so much, because they expect at minimum a partial return. This is not a little thing, the mirror status of items drives extreme expenditure to create items, and so will push the limit of what people realistically are willing to put into an item greatly, mirrors are the gateway to eternal abuse really it acts like a catalyst and ensures eternal rolling reaches untold heights.

Then there is the thing that you like to sweep under the rug. In perm leagues, mirrors create a near monopoly like scenario which destroys general item crafting. Without mirrors, one item can only be worn by one person, that means item crafters have to keep crafting items and sell them, which means that the market is open for anyone with some basic capital to get going, as long as they are good at crafting. Also since crafting now occurs at more levels, they do not have to start out crafting perfectish items. That creates a crafters market, for the active player, not the player who was first and then dominates all others because of that alone. This you like to sweep under the rug but the impact is MASSIVE, it removes most of the crafting items to sell in perm league. All mirrors' doing.


Back to Misconceptions of eternal haters:

Then let us look at temp leagues. You guys that are all about the perpetual grind are making some nothing short of ignorant statements, completely having no clue what we are telling you. You could't care less if you were stuck on 55% rare potential progression, or 80% potential progression, it is all relative and if that is where the game was set from the get you go you would be defending any change in the same way you defend staying stuck on 55% - for you it never matters so long as you still have a good distance to your carrot. Do you understand this? We are not ruining your neverending carrot - and you are simply acting defensive on principle rather than considering that there is room for both our styles to coexist.

By the way, this endgame with shifting items to watch will be even better without mirrors than you could ever imagine. With mirrors it is a one way street. It only gets better until one day it's a 6t1 item and boom. Without mirrors and with eternals, you will see items changing all the time, because they will be crafted and sold. You might remember that time when you saw that really insanely rolled item for sale, and think back on those days, and who knows maybe one day it will resurge. The item endgame will be ever shifting, not just a one way street, and you never know when the best item you ever saw will pop for sale.


All in all, mirrors and eternals can not coexist, as they catalyze each other. Eternals > Mirrors. That is because eternals are the only way to endgame craft, without you are just asking for extremely unlikely luck, korean style, gambling rather than creating. A good computer game should allow you to create your fantasy, not beg for mercy of rng while realistically being extremely unlikely to succeed even if you spend years of your life trying for a lesser goal. If 0.2% of players are able to create items that are near perfection with eternals in game, why are you so afraid of that? You never will anyway. And if they succeed they will just have created a tiny tiny bit of the items required for all the builds they want to play at optimal power, so they will keep going. They deserve it and they do not ruin the game of other players'. The worst thing they could do is have power difference enough to just wreck other players - ironically that is now much worse in your current system when there is such a gigantic gab between possible and practical. Oh did i mention, that with eternals in game, mirrors out of the game there will be less of the very best items, and more of the item ranges in between, with the average item power raised and lesser gab between potential and practical levels. 98% perfect items will be far more rare than they currently are, in great part due to lacking incentive to create them for mirroring dominance, so the best items will be more rare..

And btw, lots of rares will be picked because cutting "raw gemstones"-of rares will be the most cost effective way to produce high quality items, by metamod scouring and so forth. I must admit metamod scouring + eternals is such a fucking amazing system of crafting in my opinion. It allows you to treat found rares like uncut diamonds!!!!

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lukeiy wrote:

This will never be interesting again. I've never been rich enough to hold a mirror, but I do like spectating and I used to enjoy keeping track of what the top items were. Eternals made the rare system so stale, the top items haven't changed for probably over a year now. Bleugh, I wish they were never introduced.

Is that Kripp's wander shield from just before "She corpse exploded the corpse of the bawse"?

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goetzjam wrote:

Except it removes the need for the exalt itself and allows for some less tension on an already stressed orb.

So, divines would work really well, then.

Let's face it, you don't want the master rerolling method to cost 2 divines and 2 exalts, but rather stay at 4 exalts (even though that goes against your own reasons for wanting eternals) because it allows self found players to reroll twice as often. You've pretty much spelled it out over your last several posts. Although much of the relevance was then removed by support.

InB4 'blah blah, GGG should never design for solo self found, insult, insult, insult'

I agree, I'd hate the game if they did, D3 and all that.

Point is, though, they also shouldn't design purposely against that play style, for no other reason than to be against it. That's what you are doing, it's kinda obvious.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Point is, though, they also shouldn't design purposely against that play style, for no other reason than to be against it. That's what you are doing, it's kinda obvious.

I'd have to agree here. There is no good reason it could not be divines rather than exalts, but since there are positive outcomes it makes perfect sense.

Very good read about the misconceptions Crack - that's exactly what I am trying to say but I have obvioulsy not your talent to write such masterpieces (in english).

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Point is, though, they also shouldn't design purposely against that play style, for no other reason than to be against it. That's what you are doing, it's kinda obvious.

I'd have to agree here. At least half of the craft is farmable for SF players and traders while the actual method requires 4x waiting for an orb that never drops... if you need it.