Can we have flashback events in the permanent SC/HC?

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goetzjam wrote:

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yungwhiz wrote:

Ive always felt standard should rotate weekly or maybe bi-weekly between past leagues. Its not bribery any more than exclusive mtx for buyi....completeing challenges in a temp league or flashback. What about race rewards? How is that not bribing you to play something you probably dont care about just for the skin transfers? How many people race to win and how many people race to get x amount of points for the reward they want?

Races are different and its clear GGG doesn't want racing to have an impact in the temp leagues because after the latest round of QQ (which might have included me) they increased the duration it takes before you can pull race rewards into the temp leagues from 2 weeks to 4. By 1 month in the economical advantage you can get from race rewards, assuming your not selling like the 500\1000 point reward isn't THAT large, previously when the race rewards were numerous MF items or other good rewards people gained a real advantage by gaining the actual item to use or sell. Probably the biggest offender was the MF belt, because at the time the only thing that could compete with it was the IIQ belt, which up until divination cards were added BiS, now I think the IIQ one is better.

Not going to just strait up say they don't have much of an impact, but its so much less of an issue then it was in the past. Personally I think it would suck not to be able to get race rewards in temp leagues, but TBH it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place.


Standard shouldn't rotate thru shit, its been the same way since day 1, its incentive to play has actually only gotten better since they allowed for league specific items to be found\chanced in zana maps. No bribery is needed to encourage players to progress a longterm character or play in a league saturated with items.


GGG enables you to play the previous mods for a cost, the only one that is "too much" is the current league cost, but even then it should remain an exalt at min.


If you can't find a reason to play standard without some bullshit event or special mod going on, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing standard to begin with. Its goal from a design standpoint has remained the same throughout time, provide a place for characters to progress in the longterm.

The thing about races was to drive home the point about bribery. Im not saying all people do it but alot of people only bother with them because if they dont, they miss out on exclusive rewards. I dont really care about their economic impact. It wouldn't matter to me if you could get them day 1 or day 100.

Standard isnt stale to me, and i don't need incentives to play it. I would still like past leagues to be on rotation. Why? Because it would be fun and imo it wouldnt hurt anybody.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

I don't understand, goetz. Why does an optional 3 ex Zana mod offer a 'safe-haven' but an optional free Zana mod doesn't?

As for playing in temp leagues, they are far too short, like really, really far too short. There was a point when Chris said they were going to be longer than 3 months that I'd considered playing them if they went to 6 months, but the first 'longer' league ended up being the shortest ever, lol. I play for long progression, it's one of the reasons I would never consider just buying gear, 3 months, to me, is just not worth contemplating.

You mock my play style so often, I don't think you ever realise the things I don't partake in are the very things which contribute to the inevitable boredom and short lived fun period that the masses experience repeatedly. My boredom with the game is coming from the starvation of free, different content in permanent leagues. I'm suggesting a way for GGG to fix that, because the way I'm supposed to fix that just breaks so much more.

Your twisting the argument, here in this thread we have many things being discussed, honestly this should be 2-3 different threads instead of one piled up thread.

The difference of the free zana mod or 3ex one is clear, they obviously want players to play in the temp leagues to get those items and experience the content, if you have wealth to throw away then they don't apparently care where you play. The argument I was making was if it is free zana mod, you don't get the drops because you don't have the challenge of doing the content with brand new character and economy, instead you would be doing it with basically a fully loaded character, plus you don't have to spend who know how much the average time it takes to get a character up to the point where they are doing maps, you can from "day 1" jump right in.

Too short for you, last I recall you play every single day, I'm not even sure you work at this point. Your playing is significantly more then what I would consider the average temp league player I'm sure you could make some progress in temp league, we don't even know if you've tried.

No one is saying you have to buy all your gear, I know people just trade for key uniques in temp leagues that they can't reliably find\farm, I know people just level with builds that don't require any. Now your saying trading removes the long term fun because you complete a character too fast, you can control that, but in temp leagues it can't be that its too short and you can complete a character too fast, those are opposite ends of the spectrum, one which you can control.


As far as different content they added the new map made from all of the lightning staves, obviously they are adding ascendancy classes, in which you can run the labyrinth and reap those benefits as many times as you like, from what I understand it changes daily and will offer a player like yourself something new to do.

You pretty much blew off @boems point about the fact that keeping the temp league idea tied to that allows for them to better balance it, if they have to make a change during the league to make it less broken then it allows for them to pissoff less players, not to mention standard players are obviously better equipped to exploit the game then anyone else.

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It doesn't make sense to label standard as the stable/safe/easy league when the current flavor temp league is the default league for a new player (and temp leagues are most appropriate for new players, since self-found rewards are very poor and participating in trade/the economy is so much more accessible in a fresh league; plus there's much more activity in leveling things like forsaken masters).

The temp league being the default league was a change that was interesting, but its to encourage new players to participate in the league that GGG feels players will have the most fun playing. Its fresh, new and interesting, not to mention its also the place they market for.

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In talisman we have under 500 characters reaching above level 95 so far. So the vast majority of players will either abandon their character when the league ends or pursue a long-term 90-100 grind in standard.

How many of those characters have 2-3 high level characters though? What is the issue with abandoning those characters if they don't want long term progression and only play in temp leagues?

Also consider the fact the league is a very interesting idea, but its NOT a league idea its a mini expansion idea pushed onto a league. Its implementation is very bad and the results of the league are completely underwhelming.

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Maybe if GGG ramped up rewards in temp leagues even more this wouldn't be an issue but as-is, I think GGG would be much better off if that 90-100 grind in standard was less boring/bland. If anything, the super long term permanent league seems like a better candidate for more interesting things, since that's where new players go after they beat merciless, and that's where most players find time to tackle the bulk of the intensive 90+ grind.

I think you don't understand the default new player mentality, I've found most new players rather level many characters to 80 something and reroll then to progress a longterm character. They get to try out many different playstyles this way and overall learn much more playing many playstyles then the would just playing one character to level 95.

I think the amount of players that continue to play a character from the temp leagues and don't participate in the new temp leagues is also very small.

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I'm approaching having 8 characters level 90-95 (1 of each class +1). It would be nice to play them in a league setting that wasn't so bland. The comparison is even worse for a new player who gets used to something flashy in a temp league, and then goes into the dullness of standard. Maybe if temp leagues didn't have everything standard had plus more, going into standard wouldn't seem so bland. i.e. if temp leagues took a constructed MtG format, where old league mods/mechanics were retired.

Temp leagues don't have everything standard has and more, it does share the same core gameplay, but standard has legacy items, legacy mods and previous league items, which some have easier ways to be acquired then others.

I feel like standard is boring because finding items in itself is boring in standard. You found a windripper, well gosh thats great its significantly worst then the legacy versions. Same can go for almost any T1 unique. Or follow the T2 uniques that are worth like nothing there, found a rathpith grats on your 10c at best...

Standard is boring because the looting is boring, that should be fixed before throwing additional mods for free. How can that be fixed you ask, I have no idea but until looting feels rewarding then the gameplay won't EVER feel rewarding. Which is why I think this whole topic is offput and misleading.

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Anyway, players interested in starting over are inherently enticed by a temp league, since it's a fresh economy. I'm not sure why GGG feels the need to double/triple/quadruple/quintuple down and pile on temp league only uniques, temp league only challenge rewards, temp league only mechanics/item bases/progression systems, and massive buffs to reward/time ratios in temp league environments (with dark shrine/flashback being an order of magnitude more rewarding than standard). So much bribing for temp leagues and so much bland for standard doesn't jive for me.

Your combining temp leagues and the 1 month event\league and piling it into one. Let is be clear that temp leagues and 1 months have DIFFERENT benefits and are designed for different purposes.

Temp leagues DO have fresh economy, its kinda required. They DO get the new league idea, abit its the same in SC and HC temp leagues now.... They DO get the league exclusive items first.

As far as item bases, I think really only tailsman has added new ones, but IMO this wasn't your typical league idea, this was a mini expansion idea turned into a league. Its clear it was a DISASTER and personally would have no issue with this being introduced in the core of the game and instead them adding an actual league idea. Similar to the vaal expansion talismans are almost identical in my mind about grind things up to grind a boss. League ideas should interact with a character from level 1 onward and most importantly properly interact with maps (ie give incentive to do them inside a map)


As for temp league only challenge rewards, are you complaining people get MTX's I mean I personally don't give 2 shits if they have them or not, I don't try to get them because quite frankly I already have the best armor set in the game.

Buffs to reward time ratio, are you suggesting that they specifically have higher drop rates in temp leagues, I don't think anyone has confirmed or denied that and honestly I personally doubt that is the case.

Flashback league wasn't anymore rewarding then just running various maps with beyond really, no not the zana mod the one with it being on the map. None of the mobs that don't spawn when the map is activated can drop maps, even exiles and stuff can't drop maps anymore as well.

Darkshrine obviously was an interesting event, it was like loot ontop of loot and it was clear people wanted at least part of that to be integrated into the game.



So the goal of the temp leagues, along with the ladder reset is to gauge what parts of the league, if any should be integrated into the core game. The goal of 1 months are to introduce or rather test various challenges and ideas that aren't full league ideas. For 1 months the reset is more important then the idea itself, however for temp leagues the idea needs to remain good and exclusive for the incentive people have to play in the league gets smaller. If people could experience the whole temp league idea with a week of gameplay in a perm league, do you think the vast majority of people that play in the temp leagues would doso, or perhaps they would play in the perm league first to try and and perhaps give up before GGG has a chance to fix the issues? Its just not a good idea to allow perm league players to interact with the core concept of temp leagues because it actually overall discourages participation.

They can fix your concerns about standard being boring in otherways that don't take away from the exclusiveness of the temp leagues and without being cheesy. Stuff like ascendancy I'm sure will do that, expansion and mini expansion ideas can do that. Temp league ideas can't do that because temp league concepts were designed with a new economy and fresh characters, not fully geared mirrored characters and all that jazz on standard.

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One thing they could do which has been suggested so many times is to allow zana mods costs on a per portal basis.

Until you realize that you might disconnect, might want to loot more then 1 portal, ect. There isn't a way to really make this happen for things that cost like a pure exalt, nor should they in that case because that mod is used to chance one of the best items in the game.

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The thing about races was to drive home the point about bribery. Im not saying all people do it but alot of people only bother with them because if they dont, they miss out on exclusive rewards. I dont really care about their economic impact. It wouldn't matter to me if you could get them day 1 or day 100.

Standard isnt stale to me, and i don't need incentives to play it. I would still like past leagues to be on rotation. Why? Because it would be fun and imo it wouldnt hurt anybody.

Its not about bribery its an incentive to do it. Race rewards since day 1 has always allured me to play because they either look cool or are cool, but there are some seasons which I've completely skipped because I felt like it wasn't necessary or was more devoted to playing the temp league or another game.

It hurts the design of the game for you to get something that currently has a cost for free. Perhaps they need to introduce more unique maps that have some of these previous league mods on them, or follow many of the ideas like mapshards or whatever that other idea is. Perhaps if you could roll with alts the ability to experience the other content or with "unique" mapshards that would spice things up a bit.


Also don't you know this game = no fun allowed.

Guys, I shorten ^ his post for you.
He didn't add any new information to the discussion but the conclusion is...

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goetzjam wrote:

you know this game = no fun allowed.

... and goetz isn't known for irony :C

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+1, I only play standard between challenge league downtimes to test builds, but I can definitely see full time standard players enjoying this. After all, one would assume that most of the money through mtx sales comes from STD players, so this reward would be more than fair.

Implementation might be tricky, but im sure GGG can come up with something creative. Seasoned players will welcome this but I reckon it will be a huge shock factor for new players (getting raped by beyond and logging off lmao). For this reason, it would need an on/off switch. See several persons suggesting a free mod through zana and I can see no problem with this as league specific items do not drop, players only get the league bonuses right?

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JusJev wrote:

+1, I only play standard between challenge league downtimes to test builds, but I can definitely see full time standard players enjoying this. After all, one would assume that most of the money through mtx sales comes from STD players, so this reward would be more than fair.

Implementation might be tricky, but im sure GGG can come up with something creative. Seasoned players will welcome this but I reckon it will be a huge shock factor for new players (getting raped by beyond and logging off lmao). For this reason, it would need an on/off switch. See several persons suggesting a free mod through zana and I can see no problem with this as league specific items do not drop, players only get the league bonuses right?

You would assume most money comes from standard players? That should have no impact on gameplay decisions at all, if people want to pay to have something done their way they discussed the idea of doing custom leagues, that is the sort of pay for your own way idea that GGG should follow.

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goetzjam wrote:

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JusJev wrote:

+1, I only play standard between challenge league downtimes to test builds, but I can definitely see full time standard players enjoying this. After all, one would assume that most of the money through mtx sales comes from STD players, so this reward would be more than fair.

Implementation might be tricky, but im sure GGG can come up with something creative. Seasoned players will welcome this but I reckon it will be a huge shock factor for new players (getting raped by beyond and logging off lmao). For this reason, it would need an on/off switch. See several persons suggesting a free mod through zana and I can see no problem with this as league specific items do not drop, players only get the league bonuses right?

You would assume most money comes from standard players? That should have no impact on gameplay decisions at all, if people want to pay to have something done their way they discussed the idea of doing custom leagues, that is the sort of pay for your own way idea that GGG should follow.

I'm just saying it is very odd that the player base with the highest spending power for the continuity of this game, is the most neglected. I've seen a large amount of players give the opinion that Standard is a dead league/dumpster league, however this suggestion could add some much needed life/love to it. It would be irrational of me to suggest that the biggest spenders dictate the direction the game takes, however if they are unhappy and make a request that would not disturb the fabric of the overall game (i.e adding this flashback feature) then I believe it is a fair one.

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JusJev wrote:

I'm just saying it is very odd that the player base with the highest spending power for the continuity of this game, is the most neglected. I've seen a large amount of players give the opinion that Standard is a dead league/dumpster league, however this suggestion could add some much needed life/love to it. It would be irrational of me to suggest that the biggest spenders dictate the direction the game takes, however if they are unhappy and make a request that would not disturb the fabric of the overall game (i.e adding this flashback feature) then I believe it is a fair one.

If you want to streamline your playerbase you can't make concessions.
Everyone who wants anything not streamlined should at least pay for it in GGG's mind (e.g. paid leagues).
That's what goetz tries to say. :c

You can't even get paid leagues, though. I contacted them about it, here is the reply:

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Hi [name],

Thank you for contacting us about this and for wanting to support us. Currently I am unable to speculate on future developments for Path of Exile, however I will be sure to pass your interest in payed leagues on to the development team for you.

Thank you again and if you need anything else please feel free to let us know.

Best regards,
Rob

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Char1983 wrote:

You can't even get paid leagues, though. I contacted them about it, here is the reply:

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Hi [name],

Thank you for contacting us about this and for wanting to support us. Currently I am unable to speculate on future developments for Path of Exile, however I will be sure to pass your interest in payed leagues on to the development team for you.

Thank you again and if you need anything else please feel free to let us know.

Best regards,
Rob

Except a couple of months ago they asked the community if there was still interest.

I think the open ended question did setup the discussion to fail because they won't or rather haven't defined what would or wouldn't be a possibility in the temp leagues. What format would it have to take, when could new content be added, various other things we need to know before I can say I will pay money to do what you are asking.

They need to somehow give us that information while gathering the interest levels too. Unfor. I don't know how they could gauge the interest unless the putforth some time to make a poll or something, perhaps only letting supporters vote so it doesn't somehow become skewed.