Difference between melee and range builds.

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xjlxmchammer wrote:

As a player who started very recently, I feel compelled to say my opinion on this matter. My friends and I started this game three weeks ago as a group of 6, each starting a different class/build. Since we all had a relatively similar schedule we played as a group. The players who took a range build, myself included, had a extremely easy time playing; this includes leveling, not dying a lot, getting upgrades, more options. We also started to magic find by ourselves at level 60. The only item I got from trading was a 5link mantle and now I'm clearing tier 6-7 maps. My friend who choose a better build can clear tier 10 already. Another guy who took a ranger is clearing content with 6 link tabula and a bow he got for 2c.

What are the melee guys doing? Following us around while we kill and they act like they are tanking. In reality, they make things bloody, harder, they die much more, and they don't do damage. They clear very slow and are more gear dependent. We found a guy who claimed to have been a guy who originally worked on POe development and he gave them items. Even with pretty insane items they can't do things we can, they actually ask to farm together because they have a much harder time.

I read through this thread and I'm a bit shocked how some people can claim a ranged characters has no advantage. Coming from a guy who played Diablo 2, there is a reason why everyone would start a new season as a Sorc. It was the best class to MF with the least amount of items needed, you can glitch a act 3 boss and kite the act 1 boss. In this game, the melee builds have the same problem as those in Diablo 2, you sacrifice damage to survive, the lack of damage affects the clear speed; the abilities too, not being huge AOE attacks also affect the clear speed.

By saying Melee builds are more gear reliant, you by default claim that ranged are at an advantage. By agreeing that melee don't have huge AOE attacks, you by default claim that ranged have an advantage. My second character I made is a lazy pally. 21k damage, despite being able to one hit eveything I can't clear remotely as fast as my friend who is 10 levels bellow me and still only invest about 15c in his character. It's only when we go past tier one maps that his damage isn't enough anymore. Thought that's another story

To conclude, ranged characters clearly have an advantage in this game. By default, the game definitely benefits them. There are clear solutions but by doing it, you do kill diversity to make balance.

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Starxsword wrote:

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'intristic AOE dealing half damage' is already a fix to bows as people would have to rearrange their links/setups to reach satisfactory damage. like use LMP instead of GMP, use a single target etc. numbers can fix current situation perfectly fine. 'you are safe and can hit anything but you hit like a wet noodle' is the ranged meta in many games and it works. it solves the risk/reward ratio that in current poe is completely broken as there is no risk playing ranged and no reward playing melee

No, you seem to misunderstand the situation completely. Range's inherent large AoE multi hit is the reason why it clears so fast. Numbers don't matter, unless you break it.

Here is an example:
If you nerf the numbers of Range too much, anyone who plays self found cannot make it through NORMAL, because they simply don't have the damage.
While on the opposite spectrum, the players who god tier items will STILL BREEZE through the game, because one shot is one shot. The only thing that matters after being able to one shot is to hit as many targets as possible.
This is what range has, ability to hit many targets.

The issue at hand is the incredibly large difference between high damage and low damage. Average players at level 75 do less than 10k damage with their bow.
However, high end players can do over 500k damage with their bow.
Do you see the difference in numbers? This is over a 50 fold difference between top tier and average.

If you nerf it so that top tier's speed is only good, then, an average player will never ever kill anything.

The fact that you are comparing top tier is really moronic, since those numbers are so out of sync with average, it doesn't even matter.


Have you ever wonder why some people think ball lightning is absolute shit a league or so ago? And others think otherwise? This is the difference between high damage and low damage. Ball Lightning is frankly speaking, shit for self found players a league or two ago. Damage is shit, you can't kill anything with it.
Now, once you get the items, then, its inherent larger AoE makes it better than other spells. Why? The reason is once you get enough damage, all that matters is how many targets that spell can hit.

By the way, Ball Lightning is in an okay spot right now.

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LSN wrote:

Things can be balanced. Ppl. just need to understand that this is about taking away from the omnipotent ranged + aoe and not just about adding to melee.

Game could be fine if endgame was more about strategical team compositions where different charackters complement each other and not only a ranged aoe race dps fest.

The result could then be that everybody could level up to ~90 on its own but then contet gets too difficult for solo, so that teams consisting of different roles are being needed. That would be great.

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they nerf HP nodes - block nodes - nerf the bringer of rain twice. Nerf the wings of entropy . Nerf the Acrobatic keystone . They add explosion on death of some melee monsters. Mana reserve is nerf . Cyclone is nerf. Cleave is nerf(well they buffed it but not that much). Vaal pact keystone is no longer on duelist/marauder area. They nerf Soul taker. The weakest build in POE are the RT melee builds.

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oh please. you cut the damage and suddenly GMP is no longer mandatory no cost gem. this alone cuts the hits number.

you give the players a choice: numerous weak hits OR few strong ones. currently there is only one choice: lots of strong hits

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btw it was me who claimed - on the release date - that ball lightning is perfect. check the skull feedback section. current ball lightning is probably the best all around spell in the game. when build right. people cannot build for it and create noodle spam..

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Stupid, go back to school. You need like 25C investment to one shot everything with GMP + CHAIN.

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goetzjam wrote:

The game is an ARPG game not some sort of MMO

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