Difference between melee and range builds.

My hypothesis is that getting Acro is worth it, getting Phase Acro isn't.

But I should just collect data, and find out.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

My hypothesis is that getting Acro is worth it, getting Phase Acro isn't.

But I should just collect data, and find out.

It's because there isnt a lot of stuff that can be avoided by Phase Acrobatics. For example, one may expect that ANY sort of direct damage made by enemy can be avoided by either Dodge or Spell Dodge. In fact, a LOT of deadly stuff can be avoided by neither. So, keystone's usefullness is greatly diminished by existing content.

If GGG add "spell" tag to many mobs' abilities, Phase Acrobatics will became must-have.

"

Ceryneian wrote:

I don't know about you guys but top keystone in Hardcore being ACROBATICS by a MASSIVE margin doesn't make sense to me.

Scrotie's idea is actually really good to see the difference between top 500 vs. the 15k.

I like the idea of top 500 vs 15k too, that might be interesting.


The acrobatics thing, Im not really surprised tbh. the talk on the forums is that evasion is shit, but I think we have our own little take here and its not really representative. I think a lot of people are making evasion acro builds. Imo pure evasion and pure armour are junk, I honestly believe that, but the reality is thats most south tree builds, thats what people are doing.


I use reaver on several builds that are not ci. Not sure how many of my builds are specced atm and how many have blank passives, but I usually have 4 builds with ghost reaver and one of them is ci.

you cna say well hybrid is shit, I dunno if thats your take, its many peoples take around here. Is it? Well I play it, a lot of people play it. Just because this forum thinks hybrid es is shit, hybrid armour and evasion are shit, pure evasion is shit, ci is shit etc... it doesnt mean anything. Its a delusion being built up here, everyone says it must be true... no, its not necessarily true and the reality is most people do not agree and they make these builds for better or worse. Just like the melee debate, melee sucks, its not viable... ok, well while we are so convinced of that in this thread everyone from a guy who just started his first char to etup smashing the top of the hc temp ladders people are playing melee, enjoying it and succeeding with it. Thats the difference between the reality of the game and the perceived reality of the game people who just read these forums have.

People in the flask thread say the unique flasks are too op and theres no point using magic utility flasks etc because of it. Well, I have a vinktars, Im not using it. I have taste of hate, only my coil chars use it, I have 2x legacy rumis and only 1 character who uses rumis. All my characters use magic utility flasks. Rory on the podcast said not many people are using the unique flasks.

Everyone cares about clearspeed above everything else... no, no they dont actually.

Arrow dancing is shit, yep, I think its utterly trash. But thats obviously not stopping people using it. Im sort of surprised its used that much, but then theres part of me that expects the reality to be pretty far from what I think is the way to go.

the opinions of this forum are a bubble, they do not represent whats actually happening in game, the circle jerks blow things out of all proportion, people arnt reasonable and they become convinced of extremist statements that are simply not true. X isnt viable, Y isnt viable, no one plays this or that, ggg hates this type of build and has never done anything for this style of play. It just descends into the most ridiculous bullshit and people are 100% convinced of these statements.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Arrow dancing is shit, yep, I think its utterly trash. But thats obviously not stopping people using it. Im sort of surprised its used that much, but then theres part of me that expects the reality to be pretty far from what I think is the way to go.

Arrow Dancind isnt as bas as you describe it.
First, any bow build has to spend just ONE skill point to get Arrow Dancing. That's kinda low price - usually you spend at least several nodes to take the keystone you need.
Second, bow character tend to kite mobs and never let melee mobs get close. So it's logical for them to presume that Arrow Dancing for 1 node will have benefit.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Actually it does seem pretty logical considering the posion build takes the keystone a lot. Part of the downside of using the chest is having to go bloodmagic and because you have no shield and no armor on your chest investing into armor isn't a great idea so acro is basically "free"

Wah?

"

Ceryneian wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Actually it does seem pretty logical considering the posion build takes the keystone a lot. Part of the downside of using the chest is having to go bloodmagic and because you have no shield and no armor on your chest investing into armor isn't a great idea so acro is basically "free"

Wah?

+ consuming dark.

There are a number of variations to the build, but if you use the chest you usually want to get the bloodmagic keystone and the "great" dot nodes are in the shadow area, so pathing along the side and getting frenzy charges, socket, ect allows for you to get acro, considering you dont have any armor the penalty on acro is relatively low when you have nothing really to begin with, you lose ES, but if your bloodmagic your not really going for building around that ES from the chest.

He's taking about Infernal Mantle.

Edit: too late

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Arrow dancing is shit, yep, I think its utterly trash. But thats obviously not stopping people using it. Im sort of surprised its used that much, but then theres part of me that expects the reality to be pretty far from what I think is the way to go.

Arrow Dancind isnt as bas as you describe it.
First, any bow build has to spend just ONE skill point to get Arrow Dancing. That's kinda low price - usually you spend at least several nodes to take the keystone you need.
Second, bow character tend to kite mobs and never let melee mobs get close. So it's logical for them to presume that Arrow Dancing for 1 node will have benefit.

well you see there you go, my opinion, absolutely not representative of everyones opinion.

My take is that if Im ranged, I can kite projectiles, when Im forced into melee range with fast mobs is when Im most in danger. For me evasion itself is better for melee than ranged because ranged chars who maintain range can manually evade almost everything, its only in melee range or for characters forced to hold ground like melee where you have to really eat damage and need substantial mathematical evasion.

Scrot expects to find phase acro not worth taking. My opinion in taking acro but not phase acro? Dansgame, basically. 10% dodge and 30% spell dodge for 4 points after youve already eaten the downside of acro? Seriously? Theres people out there passing that up?

Yes seriously, there are probably tons of people doing that, and I think all of them are insane.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Yes seriously, there are probably tons of people doing that, and I think all of them are insane.

I agree with you, 4 nodes are quite small price for that. But some top HC players think otherwise and a lot of community blindly follows them.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

well you see there you go, my opinion, absolutely not representative of everyones opinion.

My take is that if Im ranged, I can kite projectiles, when Im forced into melee range with fast mobs is when Im most in danger. For me evasion itself is better for melee than ranged because ranged chars who maintain range can manually evade almost everything, its only in melee range or for characters forced to hold ground like melee where you have to really eat damage and need substantial mathematical evasion.

Scrot expects to find phase acro not worth taking. My opinion in taking acro but not phase acro? Dansgame, basically. 10% dodge and 30% spell dodge for 4 points after youve already eaten the downside of acro? Seriously? Theres people out there passing that up?

Yes seriously, there are probably tons of people doing that, and I think all of them are insane.

Well my binos character is already stretched out on terms of points investment, being a HC character makes it even harder to put more points into that instead of something like life, which you absolutely need. I'm sure if I had better rings\jewelry I would be able to drop one of the crit wheel nodes for daggers and move those points around perhaps to finish the acro wheel.

"

I agree with you, 4 nodes are quite small price for that. But some top HC players think otherwise and a lot of community blindly follows them.

Basically answered this, at least from my perspective with my statement above ^